Regarding the cost reduction, I failed to remember that Bunkers give a 3+ save so I guess they do get some benefit.

So I have updated the sheet with all the formations everyone has talked about, and will do another once over to make sure I captured all the ideas.

Next I will review the static fortifications and see what to include.

Interesting point that I noted. An Imperial Bastian is DC4. Seeing there is no size specified other than that, would it be based on a Titan Base? I am re-considering my outlook on these purely for the fact that I do not see it being as useful as in other lists - which then begs the question whether it should be in the list.

The cost is prohibitive for a Marine list as 250 points is effectively 1 or even 1.5 activations. As has been toted on this thread, the mud marines are really going to need all the activations they can get - so is it worth it?

What it does seem to be good for is a Blitz Guard however giving a subsequent 4xFF3+ or 4xCC5+ assistance in any assault.

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*sigh*

I really need FW to close up shop for about a month while the list gets made

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Land Raider Ares with its Demolisher also springs to mind. It's less official though.

In regards to the Thunderfire - I'm not entirely sure. On the one hand, I could see it having difficulty with difficult terrain. On the other hand, it's designed FOR difficult terrain specifically. Whichever is closer to being worth seventy-five points is the option to go with, IMO.

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Yes and it was made by the Dark Angels but for some reason they don't get it in there list...

Anyways, either LR variant would be nice to blast into a fortress. Ares and Achilles could blast it open while Crusaders and Redeemers unload there Marine cargo of doom. But then we have 4 LR variants, too many? Maybe or Maybe not...

It be nice to see SM Bastion instead of regular Bunkers. You could have Minefields and Razor-wire? And maybe Dragon's Teeth?

EDIT: But at this point we may have enough stuff to make a Attack and Defend list...

Why would an Imperial Bastion be a unit?

Why can't it be a terrain piece that counts-as fortifications, can hold x units, and is placed in the same way as Siegemasters place their trenchworks?

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Maybe the special rule you want is for each of the IF objectives to in fact be titan base size fortifications? Thats your global special rule as it were?

Because an Imperial Bastion has guns...

Sounds like an Imperial Bastion with Tarantulas, to me!

I don't see a need to make it a unit, especially since you wouldn't be able to have infantry shoot out of it/gain a better cover save from it, etc.

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I would imagine you'd arm it after it's placed. E&C's Tarantula idea is exactly how I saw it, too.
So basically, how I see it is it's a blank bunker and then you garrison in it with armed forces. Anything the actual bastion is armed with can be "swallowed" by the troops firepower stationed it.

How is this any different from just putting a bunch of Bunkers close together as "one" terrain piece then?

If it's a War Engine, then you can't put Marines on top and have them shoot.

Instead it's a War Engine gun turret that can't move anywhere.

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For everyone's reference, I am looking at the Bstian stats in the NetEA IG document.

As has been a constant view throughout this, I am not really looking to playtest balance. Rather I would favour existing examples.

If the Bastian needs to change to be standard across lists, I am fine with that. I do not think we need different stat lines to accomodate different Bastians however.

So either make it a staic defence, terrain, or a unit. I am not fussed either way

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The more I look at it, the more I see an Armour formation (predators and Land Raiders) as being the least taken in a Marine list.

At the current points for these, they are prohibitive (I am talking about a formation for now - not as upgrades or transports) for what you get. I have been at two minds as to whether a formation should even be included if it will not be an option.

I believe the list could work with such an idea. Would people miss Land raiders and Predators as their own formations and merely see them as upgrades?

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I also have an idea to have a formation of 4 tacticals with two vehicles (whether Land Raiders or Predators) to promote the mud-marine look on a table top.

Something like 4 Tacticals (200 - 225) + 2xLand Raiders or 2xPreadators (+150 or +125 respectively).
So the formation would cost between 325 and 375 points.
This appears to be a good balance promoting the use of the vehicles in the list.

Only issue I can see is the standard Tactical formation (250) having to purchase transports (+150 or +175). Maybe they are too similar?

Then again, base Tacticals are still one of the cheaper options whos numbers and ATSKNF will ensure they hold objectives... with the use of cheap fortifications (being reviewed now - ideas to come), and the ability to garrison, their move up a table should not be such a burden.

Still pondering....

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