In some ways it is a benefit in of itself.. yes you are going in with a blast marker... however you are not Deep striking with Terminators and then failing to charge into combat. or doubling up the board with one formation, and then failing to engage on the retain..

In some situations it's definitely going to be negative, in others it's very positive to the army.

That is a fair point.

Though looking at the rule more closely it does make Terminators better. Possibly put them up by 25pts?

Also does Ruggles object to the negative aspect of the rule?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Oi you're beating a dead horse ; you've changed my mind so let's move forwards and find a constant effect rule shall we? (Or have no rule at all)

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

So overall I would go with.

"On a failed Initiative test instead of a Hold action you must take an engage action. This Engage action must be directly towards the nearest enemy and you must attempt to BtB if at all possibly."

And "The Death Company may never claim objectives, but may contest them"

with a low initiative on the Death Company, it should make them raving 1 shot madman, and keeps it to 2 simple rules, which have comparable rules to other armies so won't be hard to remember..

"Engage on hold" is both a benefit and drawback. The drawback is obvious; devastators running into close combat, rhinos charging etc. The benefit is that you will never fail to engage, even on a retain with BMs.

Sounds very blood angels to me.

Auto engage is too much of an advantage, if you have the option to just make a normal move or remove BMs as well. It just gives you auto engaging terminators with no disadvantage.

also there are a few examples of it in the background. They charged out of the Imperial Palace Gate into the Chaos Horde against all orders due to the psychic wave from Sanguinius death. Which was the first example of the Black Rage..

I like the "must B2B" because that does directly reflect the insane bloodthirst of the Blood Angels.

How about this version, which does keep the option to meditate (Regroup):

"On a failed Initiative test then instead of a Hold action you must take either an Engage action or Regroup to remove Blast Markers. If chosen, the Engage action must be directly towards the nearest enemy and you must attempt to bring your units into BtB if possible."


plus:

"The Death Company may never claim objectives, but may contest them"

Possibly also keep the current Death Company rule (Ignore BM's when Engaging)?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

as I said as second ago E&C I'm against allowing them to avoid the Engage, as the Auto Engage is so much of an advantage in most situations where your likely to fail, Terminators and Retain Assaults. But see what other people think.

Hmmmmm.

How about they are offered the choice of either Engaging, or remaining stationary (No Regroup, no shooting, just remaining stationary).

That still represents them holding the Thirst down (they don't have to charge) but it isn't quite a flat advantage either (They're still left next to an enemy with a BM on them).

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I think it's still complicating the rule, losing some of the character (eg no Devestators frenzying) and may be unbalanced.

At the moment you have Me, Zombo (and I think you were fine with the original rule) in favour of it as it stands and Rug whose against it.. I would wait and see what other people think..

Also I don't think Rug realises how much of an advantage the rule is when it really matters, I think it needs to be always an engage or it's not going to balance.

I mean you have a 1+ initiative, and probably a supreme commander. it going to be rare that you are going to fail, The advantage to combat units that a retaining to engage or Terminators is huge, if a shooting unit fail you are probably going to be too far away to get into combat anyway, but it will pull them out of position, maybe get them in a position they can be charged.

Okay, will sit back and listen...

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter