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Changing the core Marine list
Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:46 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Apr. 24 2007,10:07)
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As far as the actual detail changes to the SM list, I'm still in favor of:

point changes -
+25 Termies
+25 LC
-25 armor formations

Hunter upgrade- 1-2 Hunters, available to armor formations
TSKNF changes - half BM in assault, Leader removes 2 BMs

+5cm move to Vindicators and maybe to Attack Bikes

Maybe Dreadnought upgrade at 1-4, instead of 1-2

I like these changes, Neal. You have my support, for what it's worth.  :p

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:20 pm 
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You knoe the original WH40k scale Thunderhawk (the full metal one) hadn't Lascannons on its "X-Wings". On thidmodelis the current SG-Thunderhawk based off.
FW wasit who added the Lascannons and the options for TurboLasers, missiles, bombs, etc...

As for the what SM chapter is what list i would rather see this breakdown:

Codex, Rulebook - Ultramarines
Ground force, Siege - Imperial Fists
CC Horde - Black Templars
"Speed Freek" SMs - White Scars
CC specialists - Blood Angels
FF specialists - Salamanders
Drop/scout/air - Raven Guard
Smaller, more Elite - Dark Angels
general Horde- Space Wolves
Tank force? - Iron Hands?


I noticed there are some oppossite pendants for the Chaos Legions:

General Chaos - Black Legion
CC specialists - World Eaters
FF specialists - Emperors Children
Tank Force, Siege - Iron Warriors
Drop/scout/air - Night Lords
"Speed Freaks", more teleport than actual moving- Thousand Sons
Assault Horde - DeathGuard
Daemon Horde - Word Bearers
Cultist Horde - Alpha Legion




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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:50 pm 
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I don't support a "mud-marine" and an "air assault" marine list split.  It goes against background severly and doesn't make sense.

Make specific army lists based upon the backgrounds presented for the different chapters.  Keep the Codex Astartes list as flexible as possible.

For the Codex Asartes list:

Change the costs for certain units (Vindicator, Predator, Land Raider, Terminator, and Landing Craft) as mentioned previously.

Remove the +10 point cost to upgrade Land Speeders to Land Speeder Tornados.

Upgrade the FF ratings on the Land Raider and the Predator Destructor as discussed previously.

Allow the Hunter wider availability to the various detachments (Vindicator, Predator, and Land Raider) as discussed previously.

Make the changes to the ATSKNF rule as discussed and agreed.

Change the Attack bike from an LV to INF and up the speed from 30 to 35cm.

Upgrade the Land Raider to carry 1x dreadnought in addition to the current 1 Terminator or 2 regular infantry.  Change the Dreadnought upgrade to include and allow Land Raiders.  Allow Land Raiders to be added to tactical formations, not just so that they can carry dreadnoughts for that formation but so that you can carry Tacticals also.  (Imagine a Landing Craft with 2x Land Raiders, 3x Rhinos, 2x Dreadnoughts and 6x Tacticals in one formation to take an objective.)

Create Dreadnought formations of 4x Dreadnoughts for 200 points and allow the Land Raider upgrade.

Remove Scouts from Drop Pods.  While they should be able to use Drop Pods, that would only be for strategic reasons and never for combat drops.

Expand the Commander Upgrade to include Techmarines and Apothecaries.  Each would be 25 points and give Invulnerable Save to appropriate units in the formation.

Create stats and formations for Veteran Assaults, Veteran Tacticals, and Veteran Devastators.  Allow 0-1 of each formation, which can take Land Raiders.  Other chapters would be able to take 0-3 of a certain type and none of the others, such as Blood Angels would be allowed 0-3 Veteran Assaults and no other veterans, Dark Angels would be allowed 0-3 Veteran Tacticals and no other veterans, and Space Wolves would be allowed 0-3 Veteran Devastators (as Long Fangs) and no other veterans.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:54 pm 
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Whoops.  I forgot the FF adjustments.  That's what I get for going from memory.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:01 pm 
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Blarg, I pretty much like all of your ideas, especially Dread formations.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:09 pm 
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I like it too. But i wouldn't allow LandRaiders to transport Dreadnoughts.

Apothecary would do nothing as the InvulnerableSave of the Character IS  the Apothecary.

Techmarine is another matter. I represent him with the rules vor a Librarian addet to an Devastator unit.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:43 pm 
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Tank force: I know. Therefore are the questionmarks :)

I agree to 1, 2, 3 and 4.

I'm against ThickRearArmour for the Vindicator. IgnoreCover to its base FF attack might be good. Not sure on the speed increase.

Halving BMs is good. I vote for always rounding down but 1+ BM counts as having BMs for assault modifiers.

The Leader removes 2BMs bit im not to sure about too.
You know in my latest DarkAngels incarnation Deathwing an Ravenwing all have Leader instead of Fearless. :D
Just to try it out.




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:54 pm 
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Oh and i dug out theold WH40k 2nd Edtion datafadheets for vehicles. Anyone interested at the speed value of Predators, AttackBikes, Rhinos, etc at this time? :)

Still not a clue where the Vindicator datasheet is...

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:01 pm 
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Ye si know ther Vindicator was in the WD but i thought i had the datasheed somewhere. Time to look up old WDs....

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:33 pm 
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Damn your're right. No Vindicator in 40k before 3rd Edition :(

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Changing the core Marine list
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:07 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Apr. 24 2007,13:33)
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Damn your're right. No Vindicator in 40k before 3rd Edition :(

People forget how many 40K vehicles actually started with AT/SM 1.

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