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Iron Hands

 Post subject: Iron Hands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:35 pm 
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From wikipedia

Organisation

The organization of the Iron Hands Chapter, following the Second Founding, deviated from the Codex Astartes. The Chapter drew much of its organization from the clans of Medusa. Each of the ten Clan Companies is a single entity, possessing its own command hierarchy, veterans, beliefs and traditions.

One warrior of each Clan Company is nominated to represent their peers at the Great Council of the Iron Hands. As such, there is no single Commander of the Chapter, a precaution implemented so that no one man can lead the entire Chapter astray, as happened during the Horus Heresy.

A further departure from the doctrines of the Codex Astartes is the lack of Chaplains. This position is instead filled by a Marine known as the Iron Father, who combines the roles of Chaplain and Techmarine. The Iron Father is considered the religious representative of both the Emperor and the Adeptus Mechanicus.



Combat Doctrine

The hatred the Iron Hands feel towards weakness and corruption has an effect on the Chapter's doctrine and operations, a belief that even extends to their own bodies. As a body can be injured, broken, or led into temptations of the flesh, the Iron Hands seek to eliminate any perceived fault within themselves through any means possible, usually cybernetic replacement of the body part.

The hatred of all weaknesses is harnessed and focused by the Iron Fathers for use in battle, where the Chapter will fight with renowned intensity and determination, regardless of the opponent. The bitter Marines will advance in a machine-like and relentless fashion, throwing themselves violently at the enemy.

Dreadnoughts and Terminators are rare because many of these suits and machines were lost in the Drop Site Massacre. Due to their combination of the organic and mechanic, the ones that remain are treated with great respect. Entire squads of Terminators will rarely be fielded, but the inspirational feeling they create among the rank and file is harnessed by allowing veterans equipped with Terminator armour to lead squads of Tactical Marines. For similar reasons, Dreadnoughts will lead forces when the occasion demands, and several of the Clan Companies Leaders are contained within the armoured sarcophagus of a Dreadnought.

So I think the case might be that they can't remake Dreads and Terminators because their construction is all but lost.

I don't think they would have pre-heresy armour as they would have been destroyed in the drop site massacre, so all their equipment would have been built post heresy

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 Post subject: Iron Hands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:22 pm 
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1 - How do the 990 post heresy chapters equiped themselves with dreadnaught and terminator suits?

2 - See point above about GW selling models in 40k :)

I'd like to see a good answer for 1. Secrets may be lost etc, but in which case why does everyone else have that stuff? Best mates with the admech but too polite to pick up more stuff?

Also remember being a shooty army in 40k translates to being good at FF in Epic, the whole scale thing and all :)

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 Post subject: Iron Hands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:54 pm 
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I second mageboltrats view of the chapter.
Bigger LandRaider and Predator Detachmends, able to add Devastators and Tanks to Tactical Detachmends and only 0-1 (Venerable) Dreadnought upgrade would be enough.
One unit per Tactical and Devastator Detachmend could have InvulnerableSave or ReinforcedArmour to represent the Terminator leading the squad.

IronFathers would simply be chaplains. Preferably put into Devastator units, to represent their Servitor bodyguard.


@The_Real_Christ:
1. They are gifts from their parent chapter. Newer chapters would have less and less Terminators and Dreadnoughts.
2. Not really

A shooty army must'nt have nessecarily a good FF value or special weapons to boost their worth in a FF (as Salamanders). High numbers of units are good enough :)
And a high amount of Tanks should make the IronHands pretty resilient.





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 Post subject: Iron Hands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:59 pm 
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I would go for dreadnought body as an upgrade for the supreme commander... possibly with a transport included.. so kind of Hybrid vehicle.

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 Post subject: Iron Hands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:42 pm 
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1 - that only works for the division of legions, what about the 900 odd sccessive chapters from various foundings? Or did the legions have a million suits of terminator armour and thousands of dreadnaughts in storage?

2 - gw would never have a force reliant on old models. Sales insanity.

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 Post subject: Iron Hands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:03 pm 
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Say the IronHands had 20 Dreadnoughts and 300 Terminator Armours at the end of the Horus Heresy left. They where split into 3 Chapters: Iron Hands, BrazenClaws and RedTalons.
The IronHands kept 10 Dreadnoughts and each of its succesors would be given 5.
The Iron Hands would kept 100 Terminator Armours and each of its succesors 100 too.

Now say out of the geneseed of the BrazenClaw there was made an new chapter. Call we it SilverClaws.
The BrazenClaws will keep 3 Dreadnoughts and 60 of its Terminator Armours.
Thats 2 Dreadnoughts and 30 Terminator Armours for the new founded SilverClaws.

And this could go on and go on. Surely at some time all Dreadnoughts and Terminator Armours are used up but atthis time you have the 1000 Space Marine chapters of today and more.

Plus i belive thata really small amount of new Terminator Armour and Dreadnoughts is still produced. Look how they looked during the Horus Heresy and look how they look today. At least the Dreadnought now look much more bulkier than the Heresy-Era ones, so some kind of tech is lost.
Perhabs there are some Sarcophagi still stored somewhere but no one knows how to built the original Dreadnought hulls but instead only the now used bulkier version?

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 Post subject: Iron Hands
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:42 am 
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Thats not how the foundings work.
The second founding was a straight divsion of the legions into chapters.
3rd onward have been done centrally. Take a founding chapters gene-seed. Create thousands of sets. Raise several chapters and equip them. The existing chapters haven't sub-divided since the 2nd founding.

They can still make marine gear, just in limited numbers. Otherwise all these new chapters would have no specialist gear. Also if your theory is correct the Ultramarines must of had 50,000 sets of terminator army hanging around consider how many chapters come from there geneseed!

Further new foundings are ordered at various times and there is no indication anywhere that they are unable to supply new chapters with equipent.

So if they are still being produced why haven't the chapter most matey with the AdMech been resupplied? Must have been over a million suits of terminator armour produced since the heresy to cover combat losses (hit by TK fire, lost in the warp, in spaceship explosions etc) and new chapters, and the admech in power armour get nowt?

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