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Wanted Salamander and I. Fists Artwork/Diorma
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Wanted Salamander and I. Fists Artwork/Diorma
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:01 am 
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(BlackLegion @ Apr. 18 2007,00:43)
QUOTE
There is no such thing as a Heavy Plasma Gun in the Wh40k universe. And because i'm a fluff-junkie i wouldn't include it :D MissileLauncher will suffice for the DarkAngels.

Supreme Commander: only if the proposed stats (leader removes 2BM) becomes offficial.

The two versions of the Prometheus: I wouldl ike to have only one version of stats for it. At this time i'm at another city and can't access the relevant files. Sowhats the difference?
Armoured list = Commander?
Salamanders/ImperialFists = SupremeCommander?

Well it used to, I've got loads. :)

I prefer the Supreme commander this way for two reasons.
1 - it makes it clearer and should be this way for all marine lists.
2 - I believe the change to 2bm to be certain and it works well in all the games I've played.
3 - (did I say two?) An outstanding rules question is a unit having stacking abilities and whether or not to allow them. Avoiding this ensures no changes to be considered later.
4 - It allows the cost to come down to 75 points in total which is better for a 'weak' (well tricky to use and assault dependant) army like marines.

The difference between the two versions is
Other versions - have supreme commander as its packed with command gear and is a 'heavy' alternative to an infantry one.
Salamanders - have more than anyone else. So if you want two or more to appear they can't have supreme commander. the choice then is to give them Commander or Leader, I choose leader as the lesser ability and easier to point/test, also it allows another leader int he formation adn if you build an assault formation that becomes pretty damn good.
on reflection maybe commander would be a better choice as it still allows multiple but with 2bm 2 leaders could be overkill.
Reguardless in light of game expereince I would drop the requirement for a commander int he same formation as fears about power levels didn't materialise.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Wanted Salamander and I. Fists Artwork/Diorma
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:05 am 
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You either discount the supreme commander or overvalue the subsequent commander.

I'm happy with two types - the one for everyone else, Supreme Commander representing the link to high command (sorry Hena I'm still not convinced high command is in there) - and the one for salamanders which doesn't outrank them, instead complemts them.

Working on the list now incidentally (as stripped down as possible) to incorporate compromises/feedback from a couple of testors plus better designers notes.

I'll start a seperate thread so me and Blacklegion (the man insisting my collection of heavy plasma guns doesn't exist) can post them both and come to a consensus, possibly after I fly to Germany in June and demonstrate stuff :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Wanted Salamander and I. Fists Artwork/Diorma
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:23 pm 
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My version has:
Prometheus
Move/ Armour/ CC/ FF
25cm/ 4+/ 6+/ 4+
Weapon/ Range/ Firepower/ Notes
4 x Twin Heavy Bolter/ 30cm/ AP4+
Notes: Leader, Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Transport (may carry one Terminator OR Salamanders Terminator unit OR two of the following units: Space Marine and Salamanders Tactical, Devastator & Scout units)

But i can see to drop Leader, because in my list it is only available if the Detachmend also includes a Character. The Prometheus is simply his transport vehilce.

Or a new special ability?
Comm Link: Once per turn a unit with the Comm Link ability gives the formation it is attached to a re-roll for its action test .

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Wanted Salamander and I. Fists Artwork/Diorma
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:10 am 
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Noooooo! (New specialy rule wise, should be a last resort.)

The had to accompany leader bit was linked to a pre testing worry of pointing/power.

It hasn't come up, likewise the (not much) testing shows the points are a bit high and should perhaps drop to 100. Then again the heavy bolters make it a better addition to an AP formation than regular land raiders. So what to do?

I feel it works well as a supreme commander in an armour/ground army. With multiple its not really possible so the choice is I think leader or commander. Leader is better for any formation that includes assault specialists (in this case MM marines) so i would stick with that.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Wanted Salamander and I. Fists Artwork/Diorma
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:37 am 
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I have read that, but then you have to look at the effect on the game.

The way the mechanics for that would work is the same as for the current Damocles stop gap - add a captain to a rhino. Here this would be add a supreme commander/other commander to the heavy bolter 'raider. The question then becomes what is a heavy bolter 'raider doing int he army?

An AP Land Raider isn't needed and detracts from the destructor, and if you are adding it to formations thats the comparison (1 rhino and one destructor verse 1 prometheus). So I'd like to have all that gear represented. leader is one way and perhaps isn't the best. Thinking more perhaps commander is the best way to go.

Then in every army the stats can be the same, but for other non salamander forces the army list would stat the first prometheus taken may be a supreme commander and priced accordingly (about say150 points, though needs a lot more testing). The salamnder list doesn't get that note and costs say 125. That way the other lists that are supposed to have rare prometheus have a disencentive, and the salamander list doesn't.

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