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IF/planetside armylist
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: IF/planetside armylist
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:00 pm 
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Sorry for the delay in replying, hitting new posts doesn't seem to show everything up!


(Hena @ Apr. 10 2007,20:19)
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 10 2007,15:04)
QUOTE
Plus balance wise if devs took 2 it would be 450 points for a formation that throws out 4x FF3+, 2x FF5+MW and 4x FF5+ attacks. Too good?


Something else about that formation - they have 6 transport slots. If one dies odds on there is one survivor and he can happily hop in the other tank.


(Hena @ Apr. 10 2007,20:31)
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 09 2007,18:53)
QUOTE
1 The effect of the 75 point upgrade is that a mechanised terminator formation costs a base of 650 points (which I have tried nearly evry chance I've got and is similar to the whitescars costing) and you can have 8 land raider strong company for 675 which managed to grind down a leman russ company, with the last couple of 'raiders finishing it off in an assault with some support.

However as I said, Chaos costs that 75 per raider and frankly marines should be more expensive. In general marines need to pay a bit premium due to ini 1+, SR5 and ATSKNF.

Not my fault if the Chaos raider is priced that way :) I'm trying to balance it, not match to a list with a few glaring problems (MW, Ignore cover and BP, the most difficult to use combo in the game :( And people wonder why every chaos force has three ferals).

Have you tried incidentally the terminator/LR combo? The current 725 one, or the whitescar 675 one or this 650 one?

Of the three the 650 works best in my experience to date. Snap for the 675 8 LR strong company.


(Hena @ Apr. 10 2007,20:31)
QUOTE
I'm saying that they should be about equal. Crusader is lacking in long range fire, but makes up for it in FF. I chose the cost of 2 for 175 for the armoured marines (both crusader and regular).

87 1/2 each? Splitting difference. I don't know, I have to use it more but something tells me a crusader is worth more to tacs/devs/terminators than a regular raider.


(Hena @ Apr. 10 2007,20:31)
QUOTE
However 8 assault marines by themselves are rather good unit as they move respectable 30cm.

Hmm I could just axe the 4 strong formation and replace it with eight and call it a forlorn hope/break storming formation.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: IF/planetside armylist
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:12 pm 
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(Hena @ Apr. 10 2007,20:31)
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I'm still doubtful of that 2 hunters thing.

I'd still hope you give some unique thing to BA (other than death company). So don't use all their structures...

Try the two hunters thing, I still believe with the exception of a spearhead 1 hunter each is best.

As for the BA they have adifferent structure and a lot more 'heavy' support. However is that BA'ful? I didn't think adding pred anihilators to an assault orientated formation was the angle they were looking for, but you never know.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: IF/planetside armylist
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:21 pm 
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So stuff to consider is an 8 strong forlorn hopr, altering dred thawk prices, the effect of 1-2 whirlwinds added to formations and streamlining leaders (for which I can sorta do). Anything else? And is anyone interested in trying all this?

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: IF/planetside armylist
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:54 pm 
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I don't consider it to contain a command unit basically.

It is packed full of gear to allow a supreme commander to remotely influence the battle. A kind of super relay. Idea being you would have a battlefront of several companies around the world and this tank boosts the chapters c&c.

No invulnerable save because its one of those things you would like to have as opposed to should be there. Command tanks are tanks with extra gear and perhaps not as gunned as the rest to focus the people inside on their real mission.

If a player wishes to have a MW CC/FF attack (and/or invulnerable save) they could have a commander added to the tank or carried by it. Now thats not possible in my list as I'm using the ATSKNF 1 leader removes 2 BM idea and as such having two leaders in a formation is two much.

Still that doesn't preclude such an action in a non GT scenario list where balance is less important.

The points are based on a pathetic number of tests and the assumption its simliar to a LR (75 points in my force) plus supreme commander (straight 50 points).

I should note their is also the Damocles, a lesser command tank which I would see as a lesser node in the marines communications network.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: IF/planetside armylist
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:45 am 
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I left invulnerable save in? Whoops :)

Actually I don't think that the Supreme commander is nessecerily in there per say. Sure he might be, or in a different Prometheus, or on a strike cruiser, in a command post whatever. In essence I see the tank as a mobile link to high command relaying battlefield telemetery, comms, sat imagary, etc to the command staff that are overseeing or co-ordinating mutliple actions over whatever frontage.

Say defending every major bridge along the Amazon from the Tyranids (they might be already here.....), with part of 5 companies spread along the length covering 7 major crossings and 13 minor ones. You would have Prometheus at key points to aid co-ordination, strengthen comm signals etc. The supreme commander himself is in DC with his command staff and several very big TV's (you have seen the films!).

Damocles is only worth adding if you feel the force will rely on assaults to some extent on the ground, where BM's are a killer. Your armour force is, well, an armour force so I don't see nessecerily a need for such a beast consider marine shooting doesn't suffer much from bm's.

Oh command staff wise if you are convinced they are onboard (I'm not) just up the tanks CC by one. That could represent them.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: IF/planetside armylist
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:51 am 
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Well it seems i have a chance for a proxie fantastic game this weekend in Chittagon, so I thought I would take the marines for a whirl - specifically these ones.

Based on E&C's ideas I wonder is it worth redoing the costs to the following (in ssence a 25 point break on key infantry and equivalent increase in costs for air transports) - also tried to incorporate peoples comments on leaders as stuff. note the prometheus won't be taken as theres no concensus on its stats.

Things I would specifically try are reinforced assault marines, dred formation (good or bad idea to allow them access to armour, esp. hunters?), larger armour formations etc.

But are there any obvious 'powergaming' stuff I've missed fiddling with the list last night?

I'm in two minds about the whirlwinds two - should they be part of a generic upgrade or not?

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
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