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The Land Raider - formation price drop
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:02 am 
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No new special rules, please.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:46 am 
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Yep no WE for Land Raiders. I won't be introducing any funky changes like that to the list.
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Dave
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:05 pm 
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I think AoC was arguing for being able to transport another formation within a LR formation. You could do that with a note in the SM transport rule, like they do in the Ork rule for Battle/Gunfortresses only inverted.

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GlynG
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:41 pm 
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carlisimo109 wrote:
No one else wants to give them unrestricted transport capacity? I'd pay more than 300 for that.

No! I'd hate that idea myself. It would be a big change that would cause problems and we'd be on a slippery slope to it in lots of other armies. It's not unreasonable to assume that some Land Raiders are tasked with shooting in a battle and some are tasked with transport (it's the same with Falcons, Gunwagons, Close Support Configuration Thunderhawks, ect).
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:43 pm 
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Steve54
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:51 pm 
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Last time this was debated any number of people with militsry experience mentioned that it wouldn't be more realistic having vehicles running round as taxis for formations

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:44 pm 
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Steve54 wrote:
Last time this was debated any number of people with militsry experience mentioned that it wouldn't be more realistic having vehicles running round as taxis for formations

This. It sounds simple, but it is excruciatingly difficult. It's virtually impossible to coordinate on the fly like that.
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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:58 pm 
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Dave wrote:
I think AoC was arguing for being able to transport another formation within a LR formation. You could do that with a note in the SM transport rule, like they do in the Ork rule for Battle/Gunfortresses only inverted.

I was't really for it I was just stating that if it was done they easily be worth 350 and not the 300 anymore. Its sounds like a good idea on paper but as others have said it be a pain to play and I think the Codex list should avoid anymore Special Rules.

325/350 a Formation and 75 a piece seems good. Did we tack down its FF value? I don't think much tweaking is needed here. I'm not sure what is "current" stats anyways did Hena changes became law already or were they still up in the air? I mean are there changes done already that we adding on top of??

I think the Preds are in more need of tweaking.
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carlisimo109
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:06 pm 
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I just brought up the transport idea because it might allow them to substitute for Thunderhawks in some situations, and that seems to be a major goal of this forum. I'm not arguing for it based on reality (though if anyone can manage that level of coordination, it's the astartes).
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CAL001
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:43 pm 
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I agree with 300, I would like to see the option to add 1 - 2 LR to the formation as an idea for consideration.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Again, having the optioin to add 1-2 LRs to the formation seems an attractive idea at 75pts a tank.
If we try this I would still recommend not dropping the formation price for many reasons.
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Simulated Knave
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:44 am 
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Ginger, don't make me explain at length why charging formations for potential is a stupid idea.

I'll do it.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:19 am 
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nealhunt wrote:
I'd stick with a 25 point shift.

With respect to the LR v Warhound debate, I think the LRs are quite a bit tougher. Yes, it's a similar number of shots to kill the formation. However, it only takes 3BMs to break a Warhound formation. The LRs will degrade as they take hits, but they are very good at keeping an activation on the board.

Neal, but would you say LR fms are worth 50 points more than current priced WHs? I'm not sure I feel that's accurate.
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stompzilla
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:52 am 
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Personally, I feel that LRs would benefit more from a FF increase to 4+, as has recently been done in the epic UK marine update. This makes them more tactically flexible and hence more attractive than a 25 pts drop IMO (Esp if you're thinking of making warhounds, pairs only).

4+ FF LRs are pretty damned decent and this update also applies if you take LRs as transports (So you'll see more LRs, even if you don't see more LR fms).
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: The Land Raider - formation price drop
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:18 pm 
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IIRC Land Raiders are already FF4+?

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