Elite, air assault/Drop force for me...... but I'm sure you don't really want to hear that.

A very,very Elite strike force for me too. One that wouldn't hang around to get in a slug fest.

Pretty much the same as it is now (Elite strike force), only with tanks that aren't worthless.

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Supporting elite air assault/drop/teleport force for the real heroes of the imperium the Warhound titan crews.

Actually, I don't really care if what you want is different from what I want in this case. I'm trying to get people to explain their views on Marines in something resembling depth or detail. That way we might actually get an idea of what people want out of the Marine list, instead of the much complained about further complaining. If thereg are clear and obvious divides in basic expectations, then maybe we might want to try and figure out a solution to that.

Instead I'm getting people ignoring the questions and speculating about my motives when explicit statements to the contrary exist. I wish this was even slightly surprising.

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Well it's frankly a kinda fuzzy question, being as I think everyone has a pretty similar view.

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It's not a dodge. How people think the SM army should work in Epic is inextricably intertwined with how the SMs are presented in the 40K-verse. SMs are omni-capable in all arenas in the 40K background, so that's what people will say applies in Epic, but that's not exactly good guidance for game design.

BTW, we are also stuck with the 40K mechanics to a certain extent, and those have built-in contradictions with the background as well (quite strong ones in some cases).

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Elite strike force - mobile, tough and brutal in one-on-one.


According to the background, any way they please should have a decent chance of success because they are uber-capable. From a game-mechanic perspective where you have to limit scope to a workable range, they should be kept to shock troop kinds of roles - rapid inserts/deepstrikes or highly mobile ground forces or a combination of the two. There should be a lot of "hammer, then hold" where they unleash heavy hits to gain a toe-hold then stand and deliver.


Infantry in general and tacticals in particular.


Anything except infantry.


Limited.


See "how they should fight" above.

E&C:

That's why I asked a crapload of different questions and answered them myself, in order to show the sort of thing I was after.

And if everyone has such a similar view, how come many proposed changes result in wailing and gnashing of teeth on both sides?

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nealhunt



What you say is true. However, there's no reason that couldn't be addressed in your responses to the original questions.

And if people are expecting that SM be able to do everything (for certain values of everything), it might be best if we noticed and confronted it.



I know. The super-independent Space Marines who can do everything independently but apparently can't do everything independently because that would make them too powerful...

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Because if you ask 10 different economists for an answer to a question, you get 11 different opinions.

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I was thinking more along the lines of it being impossible for them to have vehicles that conform to their elite role. The Rhino chassis vehicles suck. We can't just arbitrarily make them better, so "elite" options for mech infantry and armor are very nearly excluded, even though it should obviously be an option based on the background and opinions expressed so far.

Space Marines should essentially be slightly stronger than normal IG infantry with much more resilience in battle.
"Space Marine vehicles should be excellent generalists." <-- This
Space Marine fliers should be evenly split between transports/drop ships and air support/bombers.



Long range Space Marines shout have powerful shots, but few of them and they should excel in close combat. Though I'm struggling to come up with a reasonable balance for this...



Tactical squads, tactical squads everywhere! Assault squads should be the next staple. After that, things get a bit trickier. There should be three basic army types based on what you want to do with the army; Ground forces with air support would require gunships and/or bombers, Deep striking/Siege would require landing craft/drop pods etc, lastly a balanced force can do as it pleases.



Titans of course, Tanks should be slightly rare but still around, and Dreadnoughts & Termies should be minor parts of an army to represent their "elite" nature.



Honestly, I don't think Space Marines should have the option to take allies. The whole idea is they are the best of the best, and if they can't handle it then it's a lost cause.



"I'd say Space Marines should be a balance between Drop Podding, Thunderhawking and Ground. Any of the three options should be equally capable on its own, though it need not be quite so capable as one or more of them together. All should be able to perform effectively without recourse to Allies." <--- This sums it up, I'd say.

E&C



So everyone has a similar view...that they are incapable of agreeing on.

Pick a side.

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Nealhunt



It wouldn't be quite so bad if Chimeras weren't basically as good and better armed. I mean, having the best crappy transport would still be an improvement.

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Everyone has a similar view on the outcome they want, but different opinions on how to achieve it. That's perfectly normal.



Rhinos are supposed to be lightly armoured so they can be dropped into battle, but this has the side effect of making them rubbish. It's a direct copy from 40k; chimeras have always been better than rhinos, but the idea is they're too heavy to be dropped easily.

Also Rhinos are supposed to be much easier to be repaired. If in Wh40k a Rhino got immobilised you roll a 6 on a D6 and it can move again. Would be like Void Shield raising for regenerating destroyed Rhinos

Also Space Marines doen't need Imperial Navy support either. Thunderhawks fill the role of Marauders (Saturation Bombing and Close Support from the Scionsof Iron lists) and Land Speeder Tempests could fill the role of Thunderbolts.

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Well, if it's all the same to you, I'd like to be able to field WE and airplanes in Epic.