"(Jet-)Bikes" has to be read as "Jetbikes AND Bikes". The only speed difference in WH40k between these two is that Jetbikes are Skimmers.

@GlynG: Last time i checked 18" isn't twice as much as 12".

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Fact is, Rhinos are indeed bloody fast, and that can be used to really differentiate the Blood Angels, and maybe help compensate for losing their Titans, etc...

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As i said: I can't come up with a better idea than +5cm speed
A +1 to Double or March actions will result in autoactivation regardless of Blastmarkers which is a no-no.

Edit: Just noticed you didn`t specify which formations have access to the Stormraven Gunship upgrade.
And i would think about removing the Predator Destructor as it fulfills the same role as the Baal Predator.
And what about the Flamestorm Cannon version of the Baal Predator?

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I reckon that’s got to be a typo as the various chapters Forge World have force lists for have had Thunderhawk Transporters in roughly equal numbers to their Thunderhawks.

I think it’s distinctly unlikely but even if they did only have 3 though that shouldn’t necessarily prevent them being in the epic list anyway. The listings reveal the Blood Angels only have 8 Vindicators or 2 minimum sized epic formation in their entire chapter, similar with Whirlwinds and Terminators yet these are all included and freely available in the epic list

Also remember a Thunderhawk Transporter is actually just as tough as a proper Thunderhawk and should be capable of flying in through flak and off safely again (unlike the epic versions which has rubbishly crippled its armour for no good reason leaving it only occasionally useful for planetstriking with rather than swooping in loaded).

So Blood angels rhinos move 40cm on roads - 120cm march?! That's a bit OTT. You'd have to really think about putting roads on a table vs BAs

That's not a bad idea; their various vehicles moving faster in W40k = their various vehicles in Epic, anything else would be a cop-out and not representing the Blood Angels right!

The speed isn't a temporary turbocharge boost - they simple have a better (Lucifer) pattern of Rhino motive technology, which they discovered with the Baal Predator schematics, but haven't shared with the Ad-Mech or non-successor chapters.

Well as turbocharging the engine could possibly fail and hurt the engine the Blood Angels could reserve their turbocharger only if nessessary. So how about allowing the +5cm move only for Engage and/or Advance actions?

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Nope it's specifically all the time, and also noted that it used to be unreliable but now is completely reliable.

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Firstly if we modify everything around the new codex, we're going to have to rewrite the base list to add:

Special Rule: Not Ultramarines
Should your army not be painted blue, they are overcome with remorse at not being Ultramarines. They receive a -1 penalty to all rolls.

They were unreliable for three editions. That trumps being reliable for one in a codex written by Captain Fanboy, IMO. Plus, there may well be in-game considerations - getting rid of finicky special rules that are sometimes forgotten. The change in the Codex smacks of "wouldn't it be COOLER", and that's a bad basis for a change to the list.

In any case - as people have pointed out, Falcons et al aren't faster than turbo-charged Rhinos despite increased speed in 40K. And honestly, no Rhino should be as fast as something that flies.

Added to this, they were unreliable for three editions - and an unreliable fast Rhino averages out to as fast as a reliable slower one, I'd say.

Leave the Rhinos alone. I'd like faster ones as much as the next man, but it's not really justifiable.

Hah, genius.


I'm not a fan of making army lists that reflect the past.

Do that, and you end up with NetEpic, which for all its balance and tactical complexity, looks nothing like the Warhammer 40,000 setting as it is today.

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They're not dropped, they're still available as Upgrades (and indeed so are Attack Bikes now!).

So it's more a doctrinal change (Bikes in support, rather than as formations in their own right) than dropping them entirely.


I'd prefer to keep them as "1", and will never play a game without them, but people have repeatedly asked for them to be 0-1 instead.

Could hold a vote to settle things?


Hmmm.

Thoughts fellas?

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That all works for me.

Did you also add the Devs back in, or have they been there?

The stats of the Storm Raven seem to be remarkably similar to the highly preliminary and theoretical commentary on the so-called Storm Eagle. Do you think the Storm Raven and Storm Eagle are going to be variants on the same hull? Or do you think the Storm Eagle plan was coopted for BAs as the Raven and that there will be no Storm Eagle?


Was all their Blood Rage stuff removed in 40K? I haven't read the new Codex.

Always been there.


Had a discussion about this with the guy who's (still) sculting the Storm Eagle.

The Storm Raven is a mini Thunderhawk, dropping from orbit.
The Storm Eagle is more like an oversized Land Speeder, attacking overland.

Thus they end up in similar niches, but they are definitely different vehicles.


No, they're still very angry.

I'm not not sure if a special rule is actually nessesary, when abilities like fearless and extra attacks already cover most of this ground adequately.

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