I'm going to update the Blood Angels Crusader/Redeemer with these new stats if there is now consensus...

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Yes i've been Testing it, and i think it's now worth the same as a normal LR (well in the BT anyway), with the reduced shoting of the new stats and especially the loss of the MW in FF the LR Crusader is now not a automatic choice over the normal one.

The extra AT you get with with normal LR is actually very useful in the Larger BT formations were i've mosty been using LR's.

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"Dyslexia is a Privilege, not a right"

okay. I use crusaders in my gk forces, so I've some experience and interest in having my stats match with everyone else's.

At the moment, with ff5+ an extra attack from the hurricanes (just one extra attack, not one per sponson) and an extra mw attack from the mm works just fine for me. I find this equal in worth to the regular lr. It may be worth more in other lists perhaps but the two twin lascannons are extremely valuable to the gk. 3 5+ attacks is a lot but about right.

Personally, I don't see any reason to chane these stats. Yeah, the mm is an upgrade in 40k these days but it is still most appropriate on the crusader.

That said, if we were to drop the mm, 2xff4+ is plenty. Three 4+ attacks is silly and it isn't even justified - 12 boltguns and two heavy weapons is pretty much the equivalent of two tactical units, particularly since there's actually half as many twin linked weapons.

LI: Shooty vs firefighty the two are indeed pretty balanced against each other with the current stats, but the 3 base transport capacity of the crusader definately swings the balance in their favour as less points are needed to transport the formations. Right now I'd say the crusader is a no brainer compared to the normal land raider because of the extra transport capacity.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I agree with LI's statements here.

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The Multi-Melta attack should go entirely.

It's an optional upgrade in Warhammer 40,000, and optional upgrades almost never make it into Epic.

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Yeah, it has been tested a lot at this in different armies as well.
Currently for me it comes down to cost vs transport capacity and what AT options I have elsewhere.

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Lose the MM and go to FF 4+ and you have the same average number of FF hits but not the macro. It's only a slight downgrade, so even along with losing the ranged MW shot (which being 15cm wasn't that awesome) nicely balances it alongside the normal LR.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

yes i think i'm going to do that in the next BT version, FF 4+ two attacks no melta gun, I've been using the current stats for months now and the MW FF is just to much.

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What, like Leman Russ sponsons, Demolisher sponsons, Valkyrie loadout, Land Speeder weapons, Dreadnought weapons, Predator loadouts and sponsons, etc, etc.

Just because it is an option or an upgrade doesn't mean it shouldn't be included. Furthermore, it is the "standard" option for Crusaders, always has been. Just because it has become optional in the very latest codex for the first time since it was made doesn't mean that the multi-melta isn't traditionally a part of the crusader.

yes i think i'm going to do that in the next BT version, FF 4+ two attacks no melta gun, I've been using the current stats for months now and the MW FF is just to much.

sorry what i ment to say was i'll be testing the new stats for the next version and yes i'm going to do a few Battle reports when i finish the new version Hena,

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