Speed 25, since I don't think you can sell speed 30, and Walker.

_________________
"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

Is this the move 20 50 points or move 25 50 points?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I would hope for 25cm at 50 points... and probably, at least, walker.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Walker is now justifed because in the current SpaceMarien Codex Vindicators can take SiegeShields wich allows them to ignore the effects of DangerousTerrain.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

BL it was ustified a year ago when they were crap and were described as operating in urban terrain.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Yes. But years ago i used unmodifed Vindicators without any problems.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Its true you can use them, its just you are better off buying hunters or similar.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

There is no Hunter Detachment ;-) Unless you are talking about the Upgrade where i never used Vindicators before. But i'm toying with the idea for Devastators.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Ah yes Well formation wise pred destructors were for me better, now with the FF4+ very much better.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Not trying (not hard atleast) to be obnoxious but isn't the vindicator a tracked assault tank?!
How can there then be ANY justification to make it a walker?
Wouldn't it be better in that case to invent the Garrision specialist unit?
But then again... The vindicare is an assault gun, not a defense (garrision) gun.
So in neither case will anything making it possible to garrision with make it plausible.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

It's just using the "walker" special ability to represent the Vindicator's ability to more easily move through difficult terrain... not that it has legs!  *laugh*

Instead of creating a special ability that does the same thing.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Ok, it sounded as if it was to make it possible to garrision with it.
But why should it have it easier than other threaded tanks? Just curious mind you.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

Walker doesn't let you garrison... scouts does (if the formations contains half, or more, of them).

And the justification is that it's got that big bulldozer blade on the front... and it's supposed to be designed for use in built-up/ruined areas.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

The vindicator has a front scoop allowing it to knock rubble etc out of the way, and thus be less likely to be damaged by difficult terrain. It is a Tank designed for Siege and Urban warfare where rubble is a common occurance, so is designed to be better at coping with it. In 40k it can purchase an upgrade to ignore dangerous terrain.

All of which adds up to walker. Walker should really be renamed to avoid this confusion.

As for Garrisoning, people mentioned that it would be able to do so because of the suggested change to movement 15cm, but this would be a really bad idea.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Or a "Design Note" about special abilities that explains they can be used "liberally" instead of making new ones...

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?