Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 6
  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

NetEA Marine list planned changes
Ginger
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:03 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
I think it will help greatly if all army list proposals are presented to JJ etc in descending order of priority. I think most people will agree with the most important changes but that there will be more disagreement as we go down the list (eg the vindicator changes). So prioritising the proposals will help highlight those which have the total support of the community.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:56 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
I was under the impression the army list changes already went to him and got mostly no'ed?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Markconz
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:37 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand

(Hena @ Apr. 06 2008,13:28)
QUOTE
Marconz, E&C
When I started to compile this, I wanted to put few changes into possible to drop part. The reason being not that they are objected (which is only the MW on Vindicator) but to try to make the changes into as small as possible. Now the final arbitration is left ot NetERC on which is kept and which is not.

Hmm... though perhaps listing them in order or preferance would be better? Then the amount of changes is limited by how many of them is wanted ...

And Ginger  :;):

The intention of aiming for as few changes as possible is admirable, but not as important now that Jervis has nixed everything. Given the amount of debate dreads generated previously, and the lack of it complaints about the fix after it was made - I don't see much justification for why this should be rated below all the others in the NetERC process. Whether it is 17 or 18 changes to marines people aren't going to care when it is NetEA and especially if you can provide it as a complete set of rules (ie you have a Handbook for NetERC efforts).

Same with vindi, whatever you do just make sure it's not too little. If you really want to go the 4 or 5 tweaks to the one unit way, I'd rather see that - instead of a half-hearted change that still leaves it sitting on the shelf.

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:04 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
TRC

As I understood things, JJ has reviewed the rules and is in the process of correcting the online rule-set - so we are not actually at the end of the 'final review' process. While I know that a number of the army list changes were also presented, I do not think they were fully understood or reviewed because of their detailed nature and because of the large number of changes to both the rules and lists that were presented simultaneously.

We all agree that the army lists need to be fixed and many of the proposed changes have been around for a significant period of time. So, I am still hoping that we can present the prioritised list of changes for each army to JJ for him to review and include in the SG site. After all, it would be a great pity to have fixed the rules whilst leaving the army lists in an unfinished state.

To this end, we need to make it as simple as possible to review the proposed changes, hence prioritising the list and omitting those changes that are less tested (eg the Vindi - much as we all want it changed in some way). These prioritised proposals need to be presented ASAP (both to give JJ a little time to reflect, and also because we know most of them anyway), hence the suggestion of doing this by the end of June at the latest.

The point is that we need to go through the process anyway, so it does no harm to present them to JJ again. At worst he rejects the lot and goes off into the sunset. Ideally, I hope that JJ accepts the majority of changes, incorporating them in the SG site with the rules held in one folder, and a separate folder for each army list including the Marines, IG (Steel Legion) and Orks, thus leaving the Epic Community with a consistent and viable game.

PS
If this process actually works with effectively no input from GW, we might just get the best of both worlds ? the game we like held in the official site. ?:blues:

PPS.
I now need another puff of nefarious substances that everyone accuses me of abusing, and no; I am still not going to reveal what they are or the name of the pusher :p




_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:29 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
Markonz :)

I am not suggesting stopping the debate on the Vindi (or anything else for that matter) rather I am suggesting that we extract a reduced list of priority changes that we know are needed for presentation to JJ, because it cannot do any harm and might just assist.

Nor am I suggesting that we abandon the Handbook or the NetERC, which I see as the way forward for the community as a whole. As far as I am concerned, this represents the living heart of the development of EPIC and these forums are their voice (and have been for many years).

As I see it, the NetERC is assuming the leadership and development of EPIC, with (I hope) the informal blessing of GW. This will be evidenced if periodically we are still able to post the results of our work on the official SG site via JJ or Andy Hall etc.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Markconz
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:49 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
@ Ginger. Yeah... :)  Well then cut that list back down to 5-6 or so then (including the ATSKNF changes). Cos we had originally about 21 changes, but now it's at 22 (because Hena added 3 to the vindi and removed 2 from the dreads). Given that situation I think it's reasonable to ask why bother removing the dreads in particular, when they are something REALLY complained about compared to some of the other items still on the list and when there were not objections after they were fixed.

Jervis could have approved more items than just ATSKNF and hunters, but he had 3 months to do so and did not.  If the NetERC wants to continue to lobby Jervis fine, but frankly I would not expect them to at this stage. They aren't getting payed for this and it was a massive struggle to get the limited negative reply from Jervis that we did get. No it wasn't good enough, but at least we got a clear message. "No more changes will occur.".

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:02 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
As I understood things, JJ has reviewed the rules and is in the process of correcting the online rule-set


As far as Jervis is concerned, rules changes are at an end.

The online document may or may not be updated to corrispond.




As to 'minimal changes', I agree with the sentiments above. There's no need to stick to 'minimal' changes when we could go for 'the most appropriate' ammount of changes instead.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:38 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
And the "cut down" list sent to JJ might well be those for :-
- LandRaiders
- Predators
- Warhounds
- Terminators
- Dreadnoughts
and possibly Marauders

in that order

Guys, I am not promising that JJ will fix things; he may well not. Rather, I am asking what is the harm is trying? Prioritising the changes will also help the NetERC with exactly the same questions regarding the complete list of proposed changes: how mature are they, how viable, how desirable, what is the extent of the impact etc

Although it is pretty evident that JJ wants to draw a line under EPIC as a whole, I do not believe that he wants to leave it in an unfinished state, and the army lists leave a lot to be desired, especially the Swordwind lists. My goal here is to help him store the 'Final' version of EPIC in the SG site - and to make that as complete as possible by fixing as many of the major flaws in the army lists as possible.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:39 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
My goal here is to help him store the 'Final' version of EPIC in the SG site


Jervis has firmly indicated that the version of Epic now contained in the 2008 errata is the final version... I don't think we can change his mind.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:11 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
While that view may be true for the rules, I am less sure about the army lists. But in any event, it does no harm to try does it?

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Irondeath
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:26 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:36 pm
Posts: 653
AFAIK that holds especially true with regards to army lists.

In the rulebooks designer?s notes JJ penned a few lines about lists being final and being tied to specific campaigns, all future lists being variants etc. IIRC.

That may have been a great idea back in the day and in response to 40 Codex Creep, but since the original lists have flaws and players need (somewhat) generic and tournament-balanced lists, this cannot stand.

Regrettably, I have to agree with E&C and don?t have much hope for SG/JJ-sanctioned revised lists.

_________________
Visit www.epic-battles.de the ultimate german epic site&forum!
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: NetEA Marine list planned changes
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:06 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

(Ginger @ Apr. 07 2008,13:11)
QUOTE
While that view may be true for the rules, I am less sure about the army lists. But in any event, it does no harm to try does it?

There won't be any list changes beyond what is posted.  Jervis was quite clear on this.  He wanted no chance of someone showing up for an event and being told their list was illegal.

In keeping with that, the only substantive changes are to the special rules.  You will notice that there are no price changes and the only changes to formations make them more flexible (even that's restricted to SMs having access to Hunters, iirc).

It's always possible JJ will change his mind, but I rather doubt it on this.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 6
  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 40 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net