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Scions of Iron v1.3
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:40 am 
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(Hena @ Dec. 13 2007,19:12)
QUOTE
Ah I think I see what you mean. Tactical det with Vindicator and Prometheus ... got suggestion on how to word it? I'll see if I can come up with anything.

Change to something like?
Transport (may carry twelve Space Marine infantry units and dreadnaughts. Terminators and Dreadnoughts take up two spaces each. In addition, the Landing Craft can carry four vehicles based on the Land Raider or six based on the Rhino, or any of the following combinations; 3 Land Raiders and 1 Rhino, 2 Land Raiders and 3 Rhinos, or 1 Land Raider and 4 Rhinos.

?

Maybe even include Land Speeders with the dreds.

Oh and attack bikes should be in there.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:15 am 
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Ok cheers!

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Soren
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:32 pm 
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Quick question: (for discussion only :) )

Why is it allowed to buy 4 Landraider as an upgrade but only 2 Armor. Wouldn?t it make sense to allow also 4 as an upgrade to at least get 8 Predator formations. I think they are not more over- or underpowered than 8 Land Raider?

Second question: Why no armor upgrade for Land Raider? Would make sense for them to shield the more vulnerable Predator tanks with heavy armor to gain some durability. Don?t think that this would be over the top....and I would love to use some Kharkov tactics in Epic  :devil:




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Irondeath
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:17 pm 
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Kharkov? Those were infantry actions in built-up terrain, with massive casualities on both sides... You are probably referring to Kursk / Operation Citadel tactics with Tigers/Panthers at the front and sides of the attack wedges shielding the lesser Pz-IV and Pz-III inside the formation?

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Soren
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:09 am 
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(Irondeath @ Dec. 18 2007,17:17)
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Kharkov? Those were infantry actions in built-up terrain, with massive casualities on both sides... You are probably referring to Kursk / Operation Citadel tactics with Tigers/Panthers at the front and sides of the attack wedges shielding the lesser Pz-IV and Pz-III inside the formation?

You are right shame in me ;). I should remember the right name after all that readings.....

Beside of this, hena,  you do not have to design new entries, just add two upgrade notes. Not that big issue I think. It?s not like the TAU list with hundreds of entries And hundreds of upgrades. Beside of this it?s an armor focused list and maybe we should give them maximum flexibility when assembling their battle squads. You seriously lack infantry, so that could be something like a real boosting bonus. (Adding AV to infantry is not a bonus most times, it let you get more hits)

The size is no the problem as marine armor is seriously expensive (many threads long discussions). You will not get the big formations af if, so what. if somebody wants to pack 800+ points into one fragile formation, why not. He will be outmaneuvered, outgunned and most important outactivated anyway. (The problem of every armor list)

I should really avoid looking too much good documentations :D




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Soren
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:48 pm 
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Warhound Titan Single pack:

Why does it cost 275? The reason behind the Price rise was the ability of taking 4 of them in Tournament games. but:

1.) they are restricted to 0-2 in your list

2.) they are the only unit which has a 25 pts increment and hinders taking at least one unit more from support entries

3.) as Thawks are also support you need every point. 275 seriously limits the choices. With two Warhounds you can only take one Thawk as support. Or one warhound only allow only two Thawks with little room left.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:30 pm 
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To my mind a single warhound shoud cost 275 across all lists to balance them regardless of the number of points your game may be.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:42 pm 
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(Mephiston @ Dec. 29 2007,14:30)
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To my mind a single warhound shoud cost 275 across all lists to balance them regardless of the number of points your game may be.

I don't think things are quite as cut-and-dried as that... other factors of a specific army list affect point values as well... strategy rating, other "support" options, etc.

Notice that you rarely (if ever?!) see a Steel Legion army with three or four Warhounds, even at 250 points, but they turn up a *lot* in Marine armies. ?The Warhounds fill a "hole" in the Marine list, so are more valuable to them, while the IG has a lot of other toys that do the same/similar things.

I'm against "standard costs" across very divergent lists, but I seem to be in a minority with that feeling.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:12 pm 
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Sorry, see it quite regularly myself at tournaments. 2 Warhounds, 2 mech infantry plus support makes quite an interesting army that I'm quite glad I've not had to face as yet.

Warhounds in both imperial armies are now so common I'm refusing to use them on principle! My opinion for what its worth.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:20 pm 
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(Mephiston @ Dec. 29 2007,15:12)
QUOTE
Sorry, see it quite regularly myself at tournaments. 2 Warhounds, 2 mech infantry plus support makes quite an interesting army that I'm quite glad I've not had to face as yet.

Warhounds in both imperial armies are now so common I'm refusing to use them on principle! My opinion for what its worth.

Oh, two Warhounds I see all the time, I mentioned "three or four" Warhounds.

But, yes, they are ridiculously common, but with a Strategy Rating of "2", it's not quite as easy for a Steel Legion Warhound to do a "doubling alpha strike", or such, right off the bat.

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Soren
 Post subject: Scions of Iron v1.3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:31 pm 
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(Hena @ Dec. 29 2007,14:25)
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I merely was following the main Marine list. But you have a point there... Perhaps I can lower them to 250. However there is debate here (between me and Charad) that should CAS be raised to 275 as it's quite nasty :).

Also I noticed that the Marauder costs needs to be same as in Neals docs, so they would be 250 a pair.

Do you really thing it is underpriced with 250? Counting that they lack the templates other bombers are equipped with I am pretty sure they are right as good as they are now. it would be +75 points for a craft that lacks the standard transport ability and fits three shots more than the standard Thawk AND does cost points from my support pool so I cannot field another support choice because of wierd point costs. I don?t think I am willing to pay this, then I want to have back the standard Thawk configuration. If you fear them, get rid of them, it?s not that complicated it sounds. (at least I loose Thawks in nearly every game to be honest)

And TWO single Warhounds are not overpowered. Compare their value to some other scout Titans and you will find out you are paying much points for some agility. (Subjugator, Questor and Ferals and even Revenants are much better for their bucks. ) So a NO to 275, but maybe a 0-2 in every list.




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