Marines vs. Titans |
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tneva82
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans  Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:33 pm |
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| Quote (Legion 4 @ 13 Mar. 2006 (17:17)) | But don't let me stop ya !   |
Well it's not like I haven't won games against titans or even destroy them(though albeit harder with marines. Though with marines I am able to play hide and seek). Titans AREN'T required to defeat titans and would be poor game design if they were._________________ www.tneva.net
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:38 pm |
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True ... but we use CAS, OBS/OWPs and firepower also ... but do what works for you ... however, kill a Titan is still challenging without your own Titan ... But again do what works for you not me ...  
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Dwarf Supreme
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:49 pm |
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| Quote (Markconz @ 13 Mar. 2006 (01:34)) | Isn't using titans one of the whole points about playing epic? It's gone from being a titan game to a hordes of little guys game, where you rarely see the big guys in the current GT scenario at typical points levels. I think we've lost track of the combined arms approach over the years, we expect marines to handle everything without their Titan Legion support! I'm hardly one to talk though - as I've never used titan support for my marines or guard in all their EpicA games so far... |
I'm with you, Marco. To me, it ain't epic without Titans. Granted my E:A experience is limited, but not counting small games to learn or teach someone the game, I have [/I]never[I] played a game of epic without at least one Titan. When I play it's usually 5000 points using SM2 TO&E and it's the rare game that I don't have that I don't have a Titan battlegroup.
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Dingodv
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:43 pm |
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I've edited my post now, but just to make sure.
| Code Sample | | "Well Prepared - Space Marines are masters of combat and so come prepared for what ever is thrown at them, any Assault Marine or Tactical Marines in a firefight/assault with a Warengine may substitue there standard attack for a Melta weapon attack. This takes the form of a MW attack at -2 there normal value" |
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primarch
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:34 am |
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| Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 13 Mar. 2006 (12:49)) | | Quote (Markconz @ 13 Mar. 2006 (01:34)) | | Isn't using titans one of the whole points about playing epic? It's gone from being a titan game to a hordes of little guys game, where you rarely see the big guys in the current GT scenario at typical points levels. I think we've lost track of the combined arms approach over the years, we expect marines to handle everything without their Titan Legion support! I'm hardly one to talk though - as I've never used titan support for my marines or guard in all their EpicA games so far... |
I'm with you, Marco. To me, it ain't epic without Titans. Granted my E:A experience is limited, but not counting small games to learn or teach someone the game, I have [/I]never[I] played a game of epic without at least one Titan. When I play it's usually 5000 points using SM2 TO&E and it's the rare game that I don't have that I don't have a Titan battlegroup. |
Hi!
I agree with you both.
Epic IS about titans, as well as the rest. Minimizing their role or making a game design were they are useless or not worth taking is not epic, at least not to me.
I think a force SHOULD be at a disadvantage when facing a titan. Only having your own titan could even the scales.
Primarch
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tneva82
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:13 am |
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Well I disagree. Any game where something is must have for balanced game is bad idea. That reduces variation and leads to less balanced games which are determined by clash of those must have units with rest of units being merely side units to be moved around while real winners duke it out to see who won the game.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:14 am |
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tneva82
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:46 am |
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| Quote (Markconz @ 14 Mar. 2006 (08:30)) | | Quote (tneva82 @ 14 Mar. 2006 (03:13)) | | Well I disagree. Any game where something is must have for balanced game is bad idea. That reduces variation and leads to less balanced games which are determined by clash of those must have units with rest of units being merely side units to be moved around while real winners duke it out to see who won the game. |
By that argument an army of shadowswords shouldn't be penalised either - it shouldn't HAVE to take anything to deal with infantry.
I still think this whole argument is bit of a storm in a teacup. Can marines get anti-titan weapons - yes and they even come in three handy sizes to suit your needs 
Do marines suffer in the GT without a titan facing enemy titans - not really as they have the option of avoiding the area where the titan is and taking out the other 2/3 of the enemy army and grabbing objectives. The exception is of course the OGBM and TL lists - but then most normal armies will probably struggle against all WE lists. |
So you seriously think it's good game design that player A brings unit Y and automaticly wins because player B didn't bring similar unit along?
Wow. I though epic was about strategy. Not rock&paper&scissor of did you bring titan along..._________________ www.tneva.net
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bans
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:04 am |
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well in the game it's not necessary beat a titan if you win more VP you win, maybe the SM cannot destroy a titan but they can stop them a few turns allowing other forces to take the objectives and win the game, I think that SP, E:A or another wargame needs a person that defines and write a background to play a scenario, it's important becaouse I ( and I think that all people) don't want a two-side ping pong battle game. Maybe we need a GM (gamemaster) wich controls the game.
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Reaver
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:21 am |
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I agree, Marines don't need a Titan to win, and they don't even need to beat the enemies' Titan to win. Focus on the right objectives - play like a Space Marine! Take and Hold , and Blitzkrieg are what Marines do according to the fluff, and that's how to win with them. Use cover, keep moving, then on turns 3 and 4 focus your forces on these objectives. Although without wishing to go off topic, it would work better if SM formations were a bit more resilient. Every enemy weapon seems to be a MW these days.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:13 pm |
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tneva82
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Post subject: Marines vs. Titans Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:08 am |
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| Quote (Markconz @ 14 Mar. 2006 (20:20)) | | Geez tneva I feel sorry to you, I didn't realise you AUTOMATICALLY lost every time the enemy bought a titan along |
Opponent having invincible unit would go long way to prevent winning. Heck that's what victory inhibitator titans do. As long as they stay alive it's virtually impossible for opponent to win as it requires pulling either and they shall not pass and/or defend the flag objectives which aren't exactly most likely objectives to be passed.
Therefore if titan destroying would require another titan then no titan=draw at most is pretty accurate describition and would be extremely poor and amateuric game design.
Good thing Jerv isn't amateur though and has produced game where titans don't require titans to be destroyed._________________ www.tneva.net
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), that they would certainly give that force a clear advantage. ?Our Titan tactics (L4SoTR) = use max assets (OBS/CAS/Titans, etc.) to pummel the OPFOR's Titan(s) until it is no longer useful. ? On Turn 1 move your Titan(s) into position and open fire on the OPFOR's ... Gaining Titan Superiority is like gaining Air Superiority ... until you do ... you're going get a lot of Titan generated firepower raining down upon your forces. ?And also, No Titan C/Cbt wpns ... Firepower? ! ? ? ? ? ?
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? And I'm pretty good at Fire and Manuever/Movement ... 
Even the large numbers of ork soopa guns and zzap guns can be extremely painful.