Remember that the IF are really the only ones to have this tank. After a few playtests and finalisation of the stats and cost, I even plan on considering making it more of a rare option in the list.

Considering this, and the fact that Achilles are meant to be mega rare outside of the IF, "their successors and the Ordo Reductor of the Adeptus Mechanicus", I do not believe they deserve a spot in this army list. Call me selfish I guess

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My main point is this: DA need to be different in their own right. They should not be the same as other Marine chapters as then, you have to ask, why have different lists?

So in discussions, probably keep other Marine chapters out of the "that's cool, I want that", and concentrate on what makes them iconic.

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I have no real issue with that. As long as it adds something beyond other Land Raider choices.

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Whether or not the DA deserve to have assault terminators (I say no), they shouldn't be called "Titanhammers", which is a specific Imperial Fists name for assault terminator formations with a vortex grenade.

Yep. Titanhammer is the name of the formation. Assault Terminators are the units.

The Land Raider Ares is an example what people can do with the blank Apocalypse Datasheet downloadable from GW. It is NOT an official Wh40k Apocalypse unit/datasheet.

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The Prometheus I think is the DA favoured rare landraider (Well Azrael likes it). A command LR fits the suppose strategic style of the DA but are tough to get workable rules for.

1. They loose the Invulnerable Save to get Fearless. Andnot shaken by any enemy ods is a feature of the Deathwing (which all Dark Angels "officers" are part of).

2. Well i for my part had some reservation for the plasma sponson Predator because there is NO fluff explanation for it other that Dark Angels Tactical Squads had access to Plasma Cannons in an earlier edition of their Codex whileother Space Marine Chapters didn't.
The Heavy Flamer sponson Predator for the Salamanders was featured in Codex Armageddon.

3. Mortis Dreadnought is an Dark Angels only Dreadnought (if you believe FW but GW allowed it for generic Space Marines too inthe current Codex). The Eradicator Dreadnought has the "iconic" Plasma Cannon. But i think a Deathwing Dreadnought would be better.
Hmm thinking of it there coul dbe an actual Deathwing Upgrade which give Fearless to a unit, which would allow to drop the Deathwing Dreadnought.

4. Hm? Land Raiders as transport vehicle are only used by the Deathwing Terminators. So why should they be allowed to transport anything else? Or what did you mean?

5. And would reduce some uniqueness of the Dark Angels list.

6. Land Speeders? The current list is V1.3 (isn't it?) there are no separate Ravenwing Land Speeder datasheets in it.

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In regard to Fearless on characters: the Dark Angels have been the Chapter with ridiculously tenacious and hard-to-budge characters since Second Edition, IIRC. It's one of their few defining points.

If Commissars have it, it's certainly not out of keeping for DA characters.

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2. Sounds like we're okay cutting the Pred?

3. So, Mortis dread and maybe one of the Codex varieties?

4. As long as it's only available to the Termies, that's covered.

5. Don't they use all the normal Tac weapons as well? Is there such a preponderance of plasma weapons that the overall utility of Tactical squads changes?

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Speaking of Ravenwing, I'm not up on the recent Ravenwing background. Are they always so Speeder-heavy? I thought they also did primarily bike deployments. Is that no longer the case (or am I perhaps misremembering)?

In 3e, the DA had access to Plasma in Tactical Squads. Others did not. It became one of their defining characteristics in the minds of many, not least because they don't have many.

I think it adds something a little neat, personally. And it doesn't really cost much - they're not mixed, so confusion would be minimal.

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On the previous page in the posting of TRC. Here the direct link to the attachment:
download/file.php?id=1181

Edit: And uploaded in the first posting.
Will answer to the other points later.

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1. In synergy with this list increasing the points cost isn't justified. Previous versions kept the Invulnerable Save and increased the cost to 75pts per Character.

2. Well TRC wants to use his Epic40k era Plasma Cannon sponson Predators

3. Actually Plasma Dread andone Codex variant is NOW more in tune with Dark Angels as Mortis configurationDreadnoughts aren't Dark Angels only anymore in Wh40k.

4. Land Raiders don't have a separate datasheet in V1.3 anymore.

5. Other than Terminators and Ravenwing there are no special deployment methods of the Dark Angels.

6. Done. See above

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