Taking into account that in Wh40k a Warhound can Fkeet twice wich averages on an extra 6". Thats only a bit slower than Cavalry (RoughRiders = 20cm speed) with the possibility to be as fast as Cavalry.

Warhound:
Move 6", Fleet 2D6", Attack 6"

Cavalry/Beasts:
Move 6", Fleet D6", Attack 12"

Jump Packs:
Move 12", Attack 6"
OR
Move 12", Run D6"

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Throwing another topic to the wolves - the 13th company. Some hated them I though really liked them. Almost had me tempted to play 40k. If it had a different system.

I think they should be available to a Space Wolf player, as an allied option of teleporters.
For those that don't know the 13th company is made up of ancient veterans who have spent the last 10,000 years fighting in the eye of terror. With no replacements or re-equipping they have taken to using a lot of Chaos marine hardware and whether or not they have inducted new members is unknown (and if so, from where). All troop types are veterans, from long fangs to blood claws and further the company includes a number of 'Wolves who have become beastial hairy werewolves. In power armour. From the artwork they all lost their helemts somewhere around the first chaos pub they entered.

Troop types
Commander, Wolf Priest, Rune Priest (compulsory or they can't teleport)
Wulfen - werewolves, can only CC, go a bit faster
Storm Claws - Vet blood claws, sod all special weapons
Grey Slayers - Vet grey hunters, bit better at assault
Long fangs - Really really old. Otherwise no change.
Parisian Wolves - Same as regular wolves, just presumably with more chaotic hair
Storm Claws bikers - leave 'em out as can't teleport

I think it would be interesting to have a formation, say 4-6 strong, or regular power armoured marines (composition of detachment variable beyond compulsory Rune Priest, or maybe fixed into 1 wulfen, 1 long fangs, 1 storm claws, 1 fenris wolves, 2 grey slayers etc).

An odd, mixed teleporting formation out of the allies section. Not too powerful but hopefully characterful and not the same hammer formation as the codex terminators.

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And people are complaining about wolf riders.  


I like the idea of including the 13th company as some sort of highly limited (0-1? 0-2?) uber-elite formation.

The 13th are annoying in that they'e not big enough to be an Epic army in their own right, but not small enough that a single 8-stand formation can represent all of them.

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Plus 8 stands is I think a trifle too large to teleport

Sticking them in the allies section along with wolf scouts, skyclaws, titans and aircraft is a big restriction. Moreso perhaps than a straight 0-x

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General Plumer, 191x

That does mean that at 5000pts (the maximum 'standard' game size) you can at least theoretically have 1666pts of 13th company units, which is brushing the upper end of what they'd have available, but not completely unrealistic I reckon.

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Where does it say that Swiftclaws have lower Toughness? In the rumours summary on Warseer they are not different to regular Space Marine Bikes in this regard.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212260

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What, you aren't taking 6 Warhounds? (Sorry 5 and some thuinderbolts .)

If it was 6 strong perhaps the best composition would be 2 grey slayer packs, 1 grey slayer pack with rune priest, then 3 of the following - 0-2 Storm Claws v points, 0-1 Long Fangs w points, 0-1 Parisian Wolves x points, 0-1 Wulfen y points, 0-3 Grey Slayers z points - and may take a wolf priest for 75 points.

Oh and on a general point its probably worth saying that upgrades can't take upgrades. So no adding Rune Priests to long Fangs and other sneaky tactics.


I was just going by a thread on Dakka Dakka (yes all this could be subject to change once its published - then again it was my suggestion and I don't think Dave has gone for it anyway) and hoped it ould be a way to get bigger formations for less

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"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I'm open to the lower save, if there's a good reason for it, but I think it'll be introducing confusion for confusions sake if not. edit: having looked through the warseer post the bikes are toughtness 4(5), which I think (from the dark days when I briefly played 3rd ed 40k) used to mean that they were 5 except against instant death thingys.

As it seems the 13th company aren't in the codex, the logical place for them would be as a 'Wulfen' entry in the appendix. If people want and think there's scope for a separate 13th company list then great, but I don't really want to introduce anything else into this list now (I'd say we're currently on roughly parity with the Codex list in terms of units/options and I'd like to keep it that way).

All I can think of that causes instance death to models is being dropped

Fairy snuff, twas merely an idea and if confusing screw it.



The option they of course fill is the teleporting one. Without Warhounds is it to harsh to take away another deep strike option in the list (regular marines of course have air assaults, warhounds and terminators). Background wise they are an allied formation, so a separate army list not in the codex. As a separate list they are I think the most unsuited army in Epic to be an army. Dark Eldar raid cities, so Epic, 13th company raid hq's and similar. Hell they only have 6 unit types in their whole army!

Still yes stick them in the appendix. If the army is getting beat by well protected assets that only deep strikes can deal with maybe they can be brought in. (I would expect most players to use chaos troops with a few cuts as them 13th company guys, though of course you wish to use them as the main body of wolves .)

I would suggest the following stats for the appendix.
Wulfen
Move 20cm, Save 4+, CC4+ +1EA ('Savage claws') FF-
Storm claws
Move 15cm, Save 4+, CC2+, FF5+
Grey Slayers
Move 15cm, Save 4+, CC3+, FF4+

And after going the wolves with a friend he suggested the following fenris wolf stats as an alternative
Move 15cm, Save none/6+ (they seem to be as tough as guardsmen overall) CC2+ FF-
Infiltrate

The move 20 being a handicap for an upgrade to a move 15 formation, which I can see.

And link an email address to your profile

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"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

So did you weaken and include some other units?

So 5k is all of them? They suffered some pretty horrific attrition then in the Warp! Weren't they in Heresy days 10's if not 100's of thousands strong? Well pre heresy days, I guess the heresy itself will have killed off most of them along with the rest of the loyalist legions manpower (bar the ultramarines, it was all a conspiracy I tell you!)

As to the wolves above I'm waiting to see what the codex looks like and to see if Dave makes any other changes before embarking on a vassal spree.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Hi all.

I was planning on holding the next draft back until after the Codex is out (potentially messing about with the stats before posting it), if people want to pick over it I will try and get it in to some sort of shape tomorrow

The picking could be somewhat academic in light of any potential changes, unless you want people to look for spelling mistakes

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x