Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 8 of 9
  [ 123 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:07 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Ginger, you're one of the best rules guys around, but I'm not too into the whole tournament thing as you've surmised. No disrespect to those who do like tournies, but they don't tend to be my favoured gaming environment.

Will I go one day?

Certainly sounds like I'm being challenged doesn't it! :D

Okay, when's the next one?




_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:38 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
Next weekend in Mansfield - check out the Dragonslayers thread.  Entry for this is officially closed - but Matt may be prepared to let you in if you plead. Army lists need to be in by tomorrow, so you will really have to get your skates on! :)

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Dobbsy
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:14 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
OK then, so where are we on this issue, Neal?

My question to those people who feel Marine players should have to decide if they want drop pods on army write up is:

Are you then happy to have 2 Marine lists?


Because if we go down this path, we have 2 different Marine lists.... One ground based, one Air Drop....
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:47 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
When building an army list, the Marine player needs to specify the transport to be available to each infantry formation, which it could leave behind if needed to deploy in some other way. However, to deploy from a Spacecraft, the formation must be given Drop pods in the army list. The wording here needs to be tightened up to ensure that this is clear, but Neal has already made a good start on that.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:34 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

(Ginger @ Oct. 18 2007,23:38)
QUOTE
Next weekend in Mansfield - check out the Dragonslayers thread.  Entry for this is officially closed - but Matt may be prepared to let you in if you plead. Army lists need to be in by tomorrow, so you will really have to get your skates on! :)

My car's currently having its clutch fixed, if it's ready in time, I'll get on with begging for late entry. :)

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:36 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Because if we go down this path, we have 2 different Marine lists.... One ground based, one Air Drop....


Two different functions, one list.

Which was always the intent of the Armageddon armylist anyway.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Dobbsy
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:02 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Two different functions, one list.

I don't see it that way - you're essentially splitting the list in 2. If you have to build the list before the tourney then you need two different designs for lists. One needs specific things for its deployment.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

(Dobbsy @ Oct. 22 2007,00:02)
QUOTE
Two different functions, one list.

I don't see it that way - you're essentially splitting the list in 2. If you have to build the list before the tourney then you need two different designs for lists. One needs specific things for its deployment.

You could phrase that a little more clearly Dobbsy.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Dobbsy
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:52 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
You're essentially splitting the list into 2.

What I mean is if you put the constraint that the marine player has to write his list before the tourney starts he has to, in essence, choose from two distinct lists - an Air Drop list with all its specific needs i.e Cruiser, Landing Craft etc and the Ground List. You force him to choose a certain way of building his list, because a ground force doesn't necessarily need a Cruiser (and the points would be best used elsewhere if it's a ground force...) but an Air drop list does. Which means you've taken away his ability to choose his manner of deploymentas the need arises . It takes away a large part of what makes Marines flexible and I think this is the flavour of the Marine List.

Does that phrasing suit you more E&C? :D
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:48 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
While I agree with the sentiments here Dobbsy, the same is also true for the Black Legion which can either buy Rhinos or Drop Pods as an upgrade, thus effectively choosing the deployment for the formation at army selection time (and actually narrowing the potential army strategies rather than expanding them as you would expect for the Marines). Neal has provided a form of compromise by permitting formations to discard units in order to comply with deployment criteria, but this would not provide the degree of flexibility you and I think appropriate. This 'quirk' will be true of any race that uses drop pods under the current circumstances.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:02 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
In Neal's earlier thread on SM transport costs, Rhinos & Drop Pods are costed at ~ 10 points each, but this is currently included in the formation cost. Would the infamous 'Biggles manoeuver' (? ?:p ) be more acceptable if the formation has bought the drop pods as an upgrade for 25 points, discarding one of the two transport options during start-up?

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:37 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
You force him to choose a certain way of building his list,


So that would be like every other army in Epic then...

The current debate (Dropping Rhinos for Pods pre-game) isn't even currently supported by the rules, you'd have to change the special rule to make it legal in the first place.

So yes, he should choose when he builds his list if he wants to drop pod or ground pound, like every other army for Epic.




_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:13 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK

(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 23 2007,11:37)
QUOTE
You force him to choose a certain way of building his list,


So that would be like every other army in Epic then...

Umm, I think Dobbsy's (and my) point here is that this is not strictly correct - for example Ork formations including transport can be made air-mobile through the addition of a Landa, but this does not force the choice of deployment at army selection time.

However by choosing Drop Pods, the formation loses its ground transport and effectively must be deployed by spacecraft, thus restricting the deployment options despite paying extra for the priviledge. I might add that this strategic deployment restriction would only seem to apply to those races that use Drop Pods.

[quote="Evil and Chaos,Oct. 23 2007,11:37"] you'd have to change the special rule to make it legal in the first place. Which is exactly what I was originally trying to clarify / propose in the first place :) .




_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:25 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
You're missing the point Ginger, it's that the basic formation composition is changed (Three Rhinos are removed from the ORBAT and they are replaced by a Drop Pod).

This is not a deployment issue, it's a formation composition issue.

By swapping, you are not choosing to deploy via a different method, you are quite literally changing the models that you are using on the tabletop.

For me it is exactly the same as swapping a Baneblade for a Shadowsword before a battle, which is why I'm against it. :)




_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: Rhino/Drop Pod Swap
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
If it were changing the ORBAT I would also be against it, but the ORBAT specifically says formation "+ transport" which as you know is the point that has been at contention throughout! :)

However, would you be more inclined to agree to this if the formation were permitted to buy the drop pods as an optional upgrade in addition to it's ground transport??




_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 8 of 9
  [ 123 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net