Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts

 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:03 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
Last night, John and I took a stab at the Mud Marine Challenge. The purpose of our game was to learn and/or refine tactics to better help a foot bound force deal with opponents. So who won wasn?t as important as learning something that would be used to produce wins later on.

For John?s part, this exercise allowed him to continue the refinement of what will be a tournament list, able to take on all comers. We?ve gone through this exercise before where we try different things just to see if new synergies can be discovered.

John?s 2700 pt Imperial Guard List:

1 x Regimental HQ, 1 x Hydra
1 x Mechanized Infantry Co, 1 x Hydra
1 x Leman Russ Co, 1 x Hydra
1 x Baneblade Co, 1 x Hydra
1 x Foot Infantry Co, 1 x Hydra
1 x Vultures

John rolled for Commissars and got enough to give one to each formation.

Honda?s 2700 pt Mud Marine List

1 x Tactical, 1 x Hunter, 1 x Supreme Commander
1 x Tactical, 1 x Hunter, 1 x Captain
1 x Tactical, 1 x Hunter
1 x Tactical
1 x Whirlwind, 1 x Hunter
1 x Whirlwind, 1 x Hunter
1 x Whirlwind, 1 x Hunter

The table had a very healthy mix of hills and woods.

Turn 1

This turn was characterized by general advances on both sides. I used my WW formations to place blast markers on the most urgent threats, which in this turn at least, were the LRCo and the Baneblades.

I positioned the SC-Tactical and a second Tac formation with a Hunter nearby the Baneblades with double moves near the center of the board and one of my objectives, shooting at the formation primarily to place blast markers, though casualties were warmly welcomed, none appeared.

John used the Vultures to wipe out a WW formation in the latter stages (leaving the Hunter), while I took the other pair of Tacs and moved them in the general direction of my other objective. John countered by moving the mechanized infantry company into woods to counter my push on the right.

Turn 2

I really needed to go first and was able to secure that opportunity.

Taking a deep breath, I fired indirectly on the Baneblade formation, placing a blast marker. Next I combined assaulted with the SC-Tac formation and the other Tac into the Baneblades. I got one crit on a Baneblade, which blew up, killed the Hydra and another Baneblade, breaking the formation.

The LRCo failed its activation and elected to continue pressing into my side of the board, controlling one of his objectives. On my next go, I moved one Tac formation over to the entrenched mech infantry and shot, placing a blast marker. Next I assaulted with the other Tac formation, using the supporting fire of the nearby Tac formation to reduce it to 2 x Chimeras and around 6 x infantry stands. The formation broke and I consolidated in the general area around the woods.

John was now faced with a difficult set of decisions. I was deep into his backfield with two very solid infantry formations, his Blitz was within one turns move on my part and I had just blasted one of his maneuver forces.

I used a WW formation to break his Vultures so that they couldn?t  provide a cross fire opportunity on my formations.

Turn 3

So there it was, the 800 lb gorilla. That?s right, I?m talking about the LRCo. Realistically, there wasn?t a whole lot I could do about it, so keeping in mind that it is only one formation, I started rotating my remaining WW formations away from it, but it was still able to advance and wipe out another WW formation, but only contest my Blitz.

I advanced with my two Tac formations deeper into John?s backfield, wiping out the remaining Baneblade. I used a surviving Hunter to control one of John?s objectives on my left, hammered the broken mech infantry company with a WW formations and wiped it out.

This really left John with limited set of options. So he moved the foot infantry company back to his Blitz to protect it. The RHQ stayed to contest the objective on the right, while using auto-cannons to hammer my Tac formations on the right.

The store was closing so we quickly looked at where everything stood. By objectives, we were tied 0-0, though I was ahead on point.

Looking to what might occur in a fourth turn if we could of played it, all things being equal, it looked like the Mud Marines would pull out a 2-1, possibly 3-1 victory. We based this on the fact that John only had the LRCo as a viable healthy unit, his RHQ was beat up pretty well and had around 4-5 BM on it, the smaller foot infantry co would have had to deal with to SM tactical formations and the Vulture squadron that was broken only had two vehicles left.

So very interesting results.

Analysis:

The SM were very effective when utilizing a combined arms approach using the Whirlwind formations to prep the attack. Also combined assaults on the IG formations or positioning a supporting formation to lend fire for a follow assault worked quite well.

Looking closely at the MM list, there really weren?t many gimmicks in the SM arsenal, the most effective being the three WW formations. I took a bunch of Hunters to discourage anything that might fly on the table with extreme prejudice, but also to have some sort of solution for the Vultures that I knew were going to be there. I didn?t want John parking the Vultures in spitting distance of my tactical formations with me being unable to respond in some manner.

You?ll also notice that I didn?t take any tanks. Especially in this game against the IG line up, they would have come up second in any attack and for true value for points expended, the basic tactical formation is pretty hard to beat. As many as you can get your hands on is a good deal. Interestingly, this type of army behavior, though using vastly different mechanics, is also manifest in 40K.

I used terrain to mask as much shooting at my formations on the way into their attacks as much as possible and was very thankful that John hadn?t taken an artillery company. Also, lest anyone think I had this all figured out on my own, John was a very willing participant in the exercise and especially in the end-game was extremely helpful in figuring out best case moves. I?ve noticed in my playing style that I tend to play stronger in the early stages of a game, do Ok in the mid-game, and need to tighten up some of my decision making in the end game.

John is an excellent end-game player and several times has pulled out victories through superior moves, especially when he has a mobility advantage. He is already looking forward to our next engagement with his Saim Hann-Sotec 1.8 list. I on the other hand am extremely anxious about that match up.

Other factors that helped:

I started the game pretty much tied in number of activations and was able to turn that into an activation advantage through the end of the game. I passed all of my activation rolls and only had the use the SC re-roll once. The MM superior command and control were quite telling, even with some blast markers on some of my units.

I did use the ?Greatly Outnumbered? proposal and Leaders remove 2 BM, but because of how I lined up my attacks and the successes I experienced, I rarely needed them. I?m sure that if I had been fighting Orks, the greatly outnumbered rule would have been very helpful.

So this was a good learning experience for me, reinforced some of the tactical precepts that have been discussed recently and showed me that timing, focus, and maneuver are critical to not only successfully attacking an opponent, but preserving the SM forces through the latter turns.

Great game John!

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:59 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm
Posts: 1455
Excellent, Victory to the Mud-Marines!  (well, almost).  Your next challenge is to NOT have the Ref at the store blow the whistle signalling 'game over' before the outcome has been decided.

Thanks for the report, and I'm looking forward to the next one.  Eldar vs. Marines should be interesting.

_________________
"For the Lion and the Emperor!"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:06 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 4262
WOW, the Marines out Arty the Guard! And how much AA did you both take, do you normally face massive numbers of aircraft!

Nice report.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:14 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Reading, UK

(Mephiston @ Oct. 26 2006,18:06)
QUOTE
WOW, the Marines out Arty the Guard! And how much AA did you both take, do you normally face massive numbers of aircraft!

Nice report.

It?s a cool idea, the Whirlwinds plus Hunter spam.  I can imagine it making a real mess of an Ork army that turns up hoping its Fighta Bommers or Landas will deal with any artillery.

_________________
"The Hoff isn't just a person - he's a state of mind, a kind of higher power"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:27 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 144

(Lion in the Stars @ Oct. 26 2006,17:59)
QUOTE
Excellent, Victory to the Mud-Marines! ?(well, almost). ?Your next challenge is to NOT have the Ref at the store blow the whistle signalling 'game over' before the outcome has been decided.

Thanks for the report, and I'm looking forward to the next one. ?Eldar vs. Marines should be interesting.

That wasn't necessary in this circumstance. ?We mapped out the last turn events pretty well. ?My RHQ might have held him off one objective, and nothing was going to push the tank column off the blitz objective ("what no support? We don't need no steenking support") but it would be highly unlikely the platoon would have been able to fight off his incoming infantry formation.

Interestingly, as we noted, this would have been very bad had I brought the artillery company version-we may playtest that in the future. ?But the concept of aggressive marines getting into assault/FF and objectives, while covering what can only be described as a buttload of whirlwinds, was both extremely effective and an extreme surprise.

Edit: I had five hydras personally. Honda had  multiple hunters. We  both are used to a good amount of aricraft in the game, and both used the AAA as some nice direct fire additions to the regular formations.





_________________
"Advance to the Rear!"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:36 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
@Mephiston


WOW, the Marines out Arty the Guard!


Those weren't John's exact words, but they were close ?:p

When I was trying to come up with a list, I thought back on what kinds of things really annoy 40K players about the SM and the first thing that popped into my head was when someone takes three Whirlwinds and lots of tacticals.

So, that became the basis for this list...so, "Our Focus groups polled 536 people exiting movie theatres and Starbucks shops and the straw polls indicated that a majority of those questioned were in favor of this approach." ?:cool:

As it turns out, this combination was intended to address the fact that John just may have taken some Manticores and with a first activation on Turn 1, I'd have a decent chance of surpressing them, all things being equal...which they usually aren't.


And how much AA did you both take, do you normally face massive numbers of aircraft!


Well, I'm actually the air-head of the group, but that wasn't why I took so many Hunters. I think people tend to see them as a static asset only used to protect a WW formation. I also see them as a mobile fire support vehicle that has a credible AT attack that could be used to fend off Vultures.

If on the off chance John fielded any aircraft, then I was pretty confident that 6 x Hunters would ensure that they never got more than one turn on the board. Given the mixed nature (i.e. AV and INF) of IG forces, the extra AT shot in my tactical formation was handy to have. Also, when testing ideas, it's often good practice to start with extremes.

Now, this list is not perfect and I fully expected to get pounded pretty hard, but what we discovered as the game progressed is that by removing activations from the IG "stable", while at the same time preserving my activations, then the SM actually became more effective as the game progressed. Seems like an obvious thing to point out, but I take the same approach with my Tau, hit without getting hit back. You can't prevent someone from hitting you a lot of the time (case in point: Vultures), but you should strive to ensure that when you strike, you eliminate or minimize the counter-punch.

Easy to say, not so easy to do. But again, I think that is one of the benefits of this exercise, which is giving other SM players things to think about in their games and possibly elevate the level of play for all.

Although this list does have its limitations, it would probably do Ok in a tournament. Not great, but Ok.

The other thing that kept popping up into my mind was how slow it was having to DRIVE all the way across the board, just to get into the opponents' backfield.

You guys really need to look into adding air assets. ?:cool:

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:04 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
On Whirlwinds:

I generally advise against putting Hunters in with them.  Whirlwinds aren't that hard to get to and putting a Hunter on them just makes it that much sweeter to pop them.

I think it's better to put your Hunters in formations that intend to move forward.  A 60cm radius is enough to cover a lot of territory and by paying attantion to the air cover you can usually force any aircraft to have to fly through part of your air umbrella anyway.

As Honda points out, it's better to have them forward where you can get the chance to use their full AT ability as long as you don't neglect any baseline assets.

_________________
Neal


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:10 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 4262
My hunters allways go with Tac's or Devs, as everyone says the extra shot is just too good. What I don't understand is why people keep leaving formations within 30cms of marine units, your just asking to be assaulted! Or did you leave the marines loaded up in rhinos?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:38 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 144

(Mephiston @ Oct. 26 2006,19:10)
QUOTE
My hunters allways go with Tac's or Devs, as everyone says the extra shot is just too good. What I don't understand is why people keep leaving formations within 30cms of marine units, your just asking to be assaulted! Or did you leave the marines loaded up in rhinos?

Incompetent IG commander Duh!!!  :D

In actuality I was setting up on the left to do the same to him.  Had Honda not assaulted the unit with one formation I would have hit him with two. He beat me to the punch.  On the right that was pure incompetence and he properly ex[plopited it.  I was trying to pull the baneblades backward to get his first formation into a nice deluge between them and the LRC company, but the other marine formation drove in and hammered them.  When a whirlwind kills a baneblade one can say he's having an official "bad day at black rock."

_________________
"Advance to the Rear!"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:07 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
Well, I think I can also say that I was seeking a seam to drive into. I really didn't think that I could take on the LRCo, but the Baneblades are within reach of two tacticals, especially if prepped by whirlwinds.

The other thing to keep in mind is that with the activation count at even or close to it, I was able to wait for the BB's & LRCo to move, then double both tacticals to within engage range under the assumption that I would get the first move next turn.

So a bit of a gamble, but I've found that when you play the SMs aggressively, not foolishly, that they reward that style of play.

They are not a sit back and react type of force.

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:30 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:54 pm
Posts: 3381
Location: First star to the right, and straight on till morning.
Massed WW are a pain to deal with...especially for an IG player.. if you bring arty yourself, do you go after the WW or the threatening assault formations?  Definitely a tough choice.  I think the battle would have been a bit different had you not lost the BB's early, but such are the fortunes of war.

Nice battle report!


ib

_________________
"Have Leman Reuss, will travel"

"Hallo. My name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father prepare to die!"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:40 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:32 am
Posts: 2934
Location: Colorado, USA
Nice write up thanks for the posting it


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:20 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm
Posts: 1455
That wasn't necessary in this circumstance.  We mapped out the last turn events pretty well.  My RHQ might have held him off one objective, and nothing was going to push the tank column off the blitz objective ("what no support? We don't need no steenking support") but it would be highly unlikely the platoon would have been able to fight off his incoming infantry formation.

Oops, musta missed the hot scrub of the game. :blush:

So, after the Eldar, is there going to be a rematch between the IG and Marines?  I'd like to see how the mud-marines stand up to arty-guard.

_________________
"For the Lion and the Emperor!"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 144
Oh yea.  The screaming hordes of Mother Russia, er Yontisgrod free regiments, backed by waves of artillery are more than willing to test this new concept.

_________________
"Advance to the Rear!"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: MM BATREP: vs. IG, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:48 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:24 am
Posts: 233
Location: Albany, NY
1 x Regimental HQ, 1 x Hydra
1 x Mechanized Infantry Co, 1 x Hydra
1 x Leman Russ Co, 1 x Hydra
1 x Baneblade Co, 1 x Hydra
1 x Foot Infantry Co, 1 x Hydra
1 x Vultures

550 Regimental HQ + Hydra
450 Mechanized Infantry Co + Hydra
700 Leman Russ Co + Hydra
550 Baneblade Co + Hydra
300 Foot Infantry Co + Hydra
300 Vultures
-----
2850

Oops! ?John brought too many forces. ?May I recommend dropping 3 Hydras, or downgrade the Mech Inf Co to a Foot Inf Co? ?Alternatively, add a formation of Roughriders and play at 3000 points.

_________________
Happy to have survived to being a Grognard!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net