well for MW replace every non-RA line with 1 (or 6+ if Inv) and every RA with its non-RA equivalent.
So difference between 3+RA and 4+RA is less dramatic up against MW fire (sucks up 1.5x vs 2.3x as much fire).

for TK replace every non-Inv with 1 and every Inv with the 6+ value.

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After reading the discussion I have cast a vote for 4+ RA with an Invulnerable. I think it does need to be more resilient than its peers to accurately represent the vehicle, but the addition of a 6++ isn't the game-breaker that 3+RA would be.

That does mean it gets a save vs TKs while a 40k Achilles wouldn't vs D-weapons, but in case anyone finds that to be a stumbling block it's worth remembering that no other model that has an Inv in Epic gets to take their Invulnerable save against D-weapons in 40K.

BTW nice graph adam -- stolen!

I think it's clear what the majority would prefer, I'll give the poll another day, then whichever result is preferred will make it in

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I assume you want to handle this with ordinary rules. Based on that asumption I cast my vote on the invulnerable save option. Otherwise I'd suggest immune to lance attacks would be appropriate with the heat/laser resistance fluff.

An Invulnerbale Save which is vulnaerable to TK attacks would be fitting

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what epic could really do with is different values for reinforced saves, so 4+/5+

that way we could have the achilles as 3+/4+ and regular LR as 4+/4+.....

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Yeah it's interesting that you say that. I have thought about that before, if we, the community, ever do a EA 2.0 then I would want to suggest something like that (perhaps cap reinforced at 4+). But that's probably for another thread...

EA2.0...there was a time i almost did it

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Okay, poll ended, with 14 votes in favour of the invulnerable save, I will respect the wishes of the community and add it to the achilles in V0.2 of the list

I'll be looking to up-version the list in the next month or so, in the meantime please play the achilles without an invulnerable save at 325 points for 4, I would appreciate if you remember, to take the save and make a note of how many times it actually mattered, especially against TK hits

many thanks

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Excellent that they'll be keeping the invulnerable save!


Their stats already include +1 for twin-linked weapons Ginger. Each tank has 2 x twin-linked Multi-Meltas 15cm MW4+.

I just posted up some comments on the weapons in the main IF thread about them. They would be used in a different way to other Land Raiders, but are deadly at close range and FF and as a blitz guard BTS or anti-titan unit and I would certainly choose to take some at 100 each when using the list. It's not relevant for the Fists but in lists including air transport I would argue Achilles should cost 125 each for their abilities.

FWIW in my game last night, I rolled for an invulnerable save to see what difference it made..... 0/3 passed

I do like the idea suggested by Borka that they should be immune to lance attacks, however as lance isnt as widespread as most other weapon abilities, it feels like a token buff even if it is a more accurate representation of their 40k stats

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