One idea that occured to reduce costs is a 4 strong speeder formation at 200 points. obviously can't do this with bikes as then they get thunderhawked with two lots thrown in.

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You know that's not a half bad idea come to think of it.

What's wrong with that, if appropriately costed... gives an awesome use for Bikes!

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Because it makes the list into a bike air assault one. And you end up with the same problem as assault marines, costed for air assaults not ground use. The ravenwing aren't particularily renouned for doing air assaults. If you up thwak prices to compensate it affects everything else.

Of course you could say ravenwing bikes aren't normaly bikes so can't go in thunderhawks.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I agree with this in theory, but I don't think that 4 bikes for 200 points would be unreasonable for air assaults.  It's the ground formation that makes me hesitant.

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Neal

Well we were known for daring air assaults in the RT days when the Ravenwing performed the first orbital assault via bullock jet cycles on Rynn's World but I suppose that is getting a wee bit too old school for the list as it is.  

I'd probably keep away from making bikes great in air assaults myself as it takes a niche away from assault marines and new units shouldn't be taking roles away from current units in the list unless they actually replace them and the DA wont be losing their assault marines anytime soon.

I think the bikes seem good as they are.  The idea of a smaller speeder group is intriguing though as it seems to reinforce the idea that RW speeder units are small scouting/light assault formations.

They landed right from low orbit, not via thunderhawks.

Having a Ravenwing jetbike detachment with Planetfall would be pretty awesome though.

As it would be too good? Too numerous? Too poor?

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I'm not sure the Ravenwing benefits are worth +25% point cost as it is.  Combined with a smaller formation size, I think that 4 bikes for 200 points would under-perform in a fashion similar to assault marines on the ground.

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Neal

Indeed it would be.  Maybe give it to land speeders instead?  

Tis a bit of an awkward thing. 225 for 3+ saves and scout seems a bit cheap. But then is 250 too expensive?

Could go back to the Ravenwing for options. What is their rol? Are they elite scouts or elite assault, or like a pack of hounds or what?
As far as I understand the ravenwing had their jinking ability.
So it could be 225 for bikes with 3+/4+ and inv saves.
Or just give them scout for 225.
BL reckons giving them leader is the answer, so they always rally down to 0bm's (whats that represent again?)

The above (just scout or save) could mean a 4 strong formation for 175, but then they just really seem to be assault marines on steriods.

I'm particuly keen on them not being white scars (who get walker).

BL, I'm sure you can wiegh in with what the ravenwing are today in 40k world. Still jinky so and so's? What makes them special now?

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General Plumer, 191x

BL reckons giving them leader is the answer, so they always rally down to 0bm's (whats that represent again?)

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So they are just normal bikes now? How dull. What does fearless do for them in 40k?


And entirely randomly with no balance implications the ac on the speeder could become a plasma weapoon, just because. Tommorrow incidentally I shall post a pic of the plasma pred as I found some whilst hunting chimera.

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General Plumer, 191x

Ah.  I missed which stats were under discussion.  My bad.  Disregard.

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Neal

Fearless, all told, doesn't really do much for them in 40k.  Fearless on DA units represents them knowing "the truth" but it doesn't seem to make much sense on the RW all told.  Then again 40k's current rendition of fearless doesn't really make much sense on the Deathwing either (40k's Stubborn does a better job of it and Epic's version of Fearless is also much closer).

Other than Fearless they get Scout though, which is fairly useful all told.  Me?  I still prefer the 2nd Edition versions with Jink and Skilled Rider.

As for the speeder I'd leave the plasma off of it.  The assault cannon/heavy bolter speeder is as Dark Angels as Deathwing.  As I've said before it was our Land Raider Crusader or Baal Predator before other Chapters got it.  Keeping it just the way it is is high on my list.

Can't wait to see the plasma pred though.