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Hunters As Upgrade How Many
0-1 39%  39%  [ 9 ]
0-2 61%  61%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 23

Hunters As Upgrade How Many
CAL001
 Post subject: Hunters As Upgrade How Many
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:29 pm 
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I tend to agree that 50 is to cheap, and the trouble with numbers like 60 is that they then leave you with unused points unless you take 5 hunters, which may be the case. Talk to your fello gamers and see what they think is appropriate. I am sold on the formation as 0-2, costing though is giving me the preverbial.


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CAL001
 Post subject: Hunters As Upgrade How Many
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:49 pm 
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I dont know if that works for me, it is an AA unit using a missile launcher. I dont think that it should have a FF below 6+. Maybe Neal's suggestion of AA3+/AT4+ and leave the costing as is. Have you played any games with them as a 0-2 upgrade? I am keen to see how other people go with them.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Hunters As Upgrade How Many
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:47 pm 
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(CAL001 @ Aug. 24 2006,21:49)
QUOTE
Maybe Neal's suggestion of AA3+/AT4+ and leave the costing as is.

Cal:  I think you missed the part where it was a unanimous decision around here that it was too powerful.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Hunters As Upgrade How Many
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:33 pm 
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the trouble with numbers like 60 is that they then leave you with unused points


Land Speeders Tornados are 10 points.

Most other Epic lists also include numbers that don't round off to the nearest 25.

Puzzling over what to do with unused points is part of the challenge of building an army, less so in some Epic lists, but it's very evident in others (Like Orks, LATD & Chaos).

Personally, I don't see a problem in using appropriate points costs for desired units, rather than trying to shoehorne imperfect units into rigid points costs. (The AMTL list seems to suffer most from this IMHO, all Titans cost the same and there are only a small ammount of useful build types as a consequence.)

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CAL001
 Post subject: Hunters As Upgrade How Many
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:01 am 
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Ok, I will give 60 a go and see how it works. Neal, your thoughts on 60 or a figure less than 75 points.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Hunters As Upgrade How Many
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:52 am 
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Hmmm... too used to building Tau armies in 25-point increments, I didn't even realize that Tornadoes were +10.  I don't like 60 points each either.

Even with the improved availability, I do not think that the Hunter is worth 75 points.  It is worth more than 50 points, though not by much.  I'm just not impressed by the one AA4+ shot.  2x AA5+ has a different damage curve than 1x AA3+, as well (44% chance of no damage, 44% chance of 1 damage, 11% chance of 2 damage; vs.  33% chance of no damage, 67% chance of 1 damage.)

How about 1 for +75 points, 2 for +125 points (averages 62.5 points each)?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Hunters As Upgrade How Many
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:40 am 
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Hmmm... too used to building Tau armies in 25-point increments, I didn't even realize that Tornadoes were +10.


IIRC there's about 10 different upgrades that cost +35 points in the Ork list too.

The 25 point increments thing is a common convention, rather than a hard & fast rule.

That said, 2 for +125 points sounds interesting, at the least.

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Hunters As Upgrade How Many
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:05 pm 
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I'd like to back up Neal's position on this, since I was one of those 4 people in the game he mentioned. I don't really think that a point reduction or stat increase is necessary, since on paper all SM units are rediculously expensive, but in actual game play they perform quite well. At their current stats, Hunters fit very well into SM armor detachments, since they have the same to-hit potential and preferred targets of those formations.

As for having 0-2 as an upgrade option, I think that will turn out to be way more powerful than it might seem at first blush, and ultimately unnecessary in any case. The biggest problem with supressing 2 hunters is that doing so would require placing 4 BMs on the SM detachment - not an easy feat. Even then, doing so will only supress the hunters down to a range of 45cm, where they'd both be able to fire as other SM unit come into range for suppression.

I also don't think you are considering the power of a bunch of individually dispersed AA units when compared to the same number of AA units in a single (or a small number of) formation(s). Three hunters, each in a different detachment, are harder to suppress than three hunters in one detachment because it's unlikely that you be able to place 2 blast markers on three different formations at your leisure.

Anyway, I do agree that there isn't any fluff (pro or con) limiting these guys to just 1 per detachment, but is there any fluff that dictates how the other SM detachment are laid out? I mean, besides having 60 tac marines (which turn out to be 2 tac detachments), 20 devastators (1 dev detachment), and 200 assault marines (1 assault detchment) per company, the rest is just based on game balance, isn't it?
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