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Space Marine Win/Loss Ratio

CAL001

Post subject: Space Marine Win/Loss Ratio

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:47 pm

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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:54 am
Posts: 1927
Location: Australia

I was enetring a game the other day, and registering on the Fanatic Battle Stats system. To my alarm Space Marines games have been 276 times with a win % of 33%. That mean they have only one 91 games of the 276. Is this cause for alarm. Is it that people do not understand how to use Marines? Or is the list unbalanced? Add your thoughts and tactics that have seen you bring home the victory banner for your marine force.

Cheers
CAL

P.S If you can enhance the description,by describing what tactics where used against a specific army type.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Space Marine Win/Loss Ratio

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:20 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

Its pants

(Technical term.)

The problem is the marine list is to be honest a drop list. The units in it work best when deployed by 'hawk, 'lander and 'pod. If you play 'on the ground' lots of units are less effective. The only marine armies that have ever worried me (lets alone beat me) are these airborn ones. Now lots of marine armies are using stocks of models that are very old so lack lots of the new options. Stuff like Land Raiders and the like are common but highly ineffective (against real tanks they loose every time) unless dropped by lander.

The only really good marine unit is the Terminators. Another problem is the list themselves. A tough game verse guard and orks it just loses when fighting Eldar and the newer lists. High vulnerability to MW fire (becoming ever more common), lack of TK ability, lack of flak, all these factors count against them.

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phindar

Post subject: Space Marine Win/Loss Ratio

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:44 pm

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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:22 pm
Posts: 73

believe me, ?I am not trying to troll here. So please accept my appologies if this sounds like I am picking a fight. ?(I am an ork after all).

Yes, there's something with marines. ?It is a hard army to play with. ?I don't think it is broken. ?I don't think it is unbalanced. ?It is just hard to play with it.

The problem is that people are so used to "easy fights" with 40k marines that when it comes to a more tactical game like EPIC, ?they expect to have the same army advantage that they have when playing 40k.

There are several lists that are rated begginer's lists while others are rated ADVANCED PLAYERS ONLY. ?
Try to play dark elves, tomb kings...
Try to play 40k dark eldar, footslogging orks
Try to play BFG orks

When you lose, ?they will answer.- It is hard to win with those armies. ?Heck! that is even printed in a white dwarf about tomb king border patrols!

But marines are so used to things beng easy.

just my thoughts.

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Xisor

Post subject: Space Marine Win/Loss Ratio

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:46 pm

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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
Posts: 515

Oh no no no!

Orks in BFG are simply pants. Dark Eldar in BFG are an 'advanced' fleet, same with Eldar. They take a bit of skill to use(patience with Eldar, and a willingness to manouver to full advantage, you don't need to be a veteran however).

Tomb Kings are a complex army to play. I'd say they need an advanced player to use continuously to the same standard as Lizardmen, but they aren't inherently bad because of it. I doubt they suffer from such a bad loss rate as the Epic Marines.

I think a few 'tweaks' should be made to the list. Perhaps not to make it better(as the weaknesses may simply be player flaws), but it should be capable of doing a fair few things that the current list can't. Marine Infantry *should* be capable of dealing with Titans(ie Multi Meltas), often where Speeders aren't used.

Otherwise though, it is an advanced army. It does take a bit more skill to use, which it *should*. It shouldn't be bad though.

Xisor

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Dingodv

Post subject: Space Marine Win/Loss Ratio

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:55 pm

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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:43 am
Posts: 65
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK

any 'player flaws' are still weaknesses - it sounds really stupid but in a balanced system you cannot have an army that performs worse 'because he didn't know how to use it'. Otherwise the other armies are infact over powered as they are too easy to use effectively by someone without even basic tactical planning

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Jaldon

Post subject: Space Marine Win/Loss Ratio

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:58 pm

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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 720
Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.

it sounds really stupid but in a balanced system you cannot have an army that performs worse 'because he didn't know how to use it'.

I really don't understand this, are you saying............

(1) That you believe that a game is balanced only if both players achieve equal results no matter how well, or poorly, they use their forces?

OR

(2) That you cannot claim a game is balanced unless players achieve equal results whether they know how to use their troops, in game terms, or not?

Jaldon

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Space Marine Win/Loss Ratio

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:16 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

I think he means if you have to be a genius to get a win with an army its too hard to use - the same genius could take an easier to use army and get consistently good results.

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Oveja_Negras

Post subject: Space Marine Win/Loss Ratio

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:41 pm

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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:33 am
Posts: 6

Is it that people do not understand how to use Marines? Or is the list unbalanced?

I think its a case that ppl dont understand how to use Marines because the list is unbalanced. I regularly play against an Ork army with 5 Zap guns and my win recentage is approx 10%! ive tried many combinations with alot of the newer options. Onyl detachments i havent used is devastators and librarians.

My Army is now completely airborn(Thunderhawks, Landing Craft, and a Strike Cruiser with Drop Pods). With this army i seem to be able to make a much bigger impression on the enemy but still fall short due to attrition. a 4+ save is great, even better when its reinforced, but there are only 4 of them. Once an airborn army lands on the ground it loses most of its effectiveness.

Personally i think there is somethig seriously lacking in the Marine list. I cant put my finger on it though. Adding some MWs may help but not on Tactial Marines. They would have to get to close to use them.

What about making Lascannons a MW? I could almost justify 400pts of Land Raiders if they all had MWs.

Anyways just some ideas and comments. Ill keep plugging away with my army for now. But am very keen to see where this thread gos.

Cheers

Brent

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