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Necron 4.2 - comments
Chroma
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:08 am 
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(zombocom @ Oct. 21 2007,23:18)
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Corey - Even under the new rules I'm still yet to lose with my necrons. They're still just too good, mostly due to the phase-out issue which you still haven't really acnowledged.

May I make ask you a question, zombocom?

You appear to be the Necron player/expert in your gaming group: do you ever play *against* them?  

Does your experience in playing Necrons give you an advantage in fighting them?  Just curious.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:14 am 
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Zombocom's from my group, he's a brother of mine actually!

Note: We once played a Marines-vs-Marines game with identical army lists and he won 5-0 :D




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Chroma
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:49 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 22 2007,01:14)
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Zombocom's from my group, he's a brother of mine actually!

Note: We once played a Marines-vs-Marines game with identical army lists and he won 5-0 :D

Too funny!

That's why he should try playing *against* them with various armies, to see if he can beat them, because, if he *can't*... *laugh*

Too me, there just seems some obvious defenses against Necrons, at least with the armies I tend to use, that they don't seem unbeatable at all... just challenging to play against.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:39 am 
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I played ePiglrim when he was using my Necrons.  His first time out with them and he beat me.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:40 pm 
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(zombocom @ Oct. 22 2007,18:18)
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Corey - Even under the new rules I'm still yet to lose with my necrons. They're still just too good, mostly due to the phase-out issue which you still haven't really acnowledged.

you don't think the suggestion I proposed does acknowledges a phase out issue?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:19 pm 
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Moose Cloud, you are probably aware that we are working on a modeling section for the Necrons in Epic: Raiders.  If you'd like just email me and I'll forward some of the info I have for you to get started.  One of our peeps put together a nice tutorial for Monoliths to be made out of balsa wood of all things.  The results were surprisingly good!  

As for Andrayadas, I used them as the torsos for heavy destroyers and for my immortals and my necron lords.  They are excellent pieces from DRM and in light of the fact that SG is unable/unwilling to mass produce the Chaos Androids of yester-year these will be your best bet.  E/W is planning on a 'skeleton with lasrifle' for some future date (2008?) but that could be past how long you are willing to wait.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:44 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Oct. 22 2007,10:39)
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I played ePiglrim when he was using my Necrons. ?His first time out with them and he beat me.

Here's a question for ya, Mosc:  Have you ever lost with Necrons?

If so, how were you beaten?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:58 pm 
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I thought I made reference to it above (page 9 or 10?) and on my batrep but as a recap:
Reasons for the loss:
1. VERY bad dice rolls.
2. I didn't field destroyers.
3. I split my forces in a very silly way that probably still would have worked for v4.0 or 4.1. (old habits I guess).
4. My opponent capitalized on my errors by destroying my Monoliths and limiting my access to the board.

This was my ONLY loss and my first night back at Epic in 3 months.  As I said, I had to work hard for that loss.  As it was I almost pulled off a victory with my last two remaining formations. :)

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:14 pm 
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FYI:  I have lost games playing the Necron.  In fact it's the race that I have lost with the most.

I don't lose games very often.  I'm a fairly nasty player :)

I have also DEVASTATED Necron armies.  It's not hard, it just involves a complete restructure of how you play the game in your head.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:16 pm 
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Corey:

IIRC, you don't even use the multi-monolith support group of doom?

That is the single best way for Necrons to win, and you purposely don't use the list in that manner?

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:34 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 23 2007,13:16)
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Corey:

IIRC, you don't even use the multi-monolith support group of doom?

That is the single best way for Necrons to win, and you purposely don't use the list in that manner?

You mean:  Have 3 or more Monolith's nearby when you ram an assault unit through?

If so, then yes I have.  I've had 4 Monolith groups in support range, used a first activation to bring through a Phalanx on an Advance order to put some BM on the target (and of course have another formation in support range) then follow up with an assault by a nicely decked out formation of Flayed ones.

Mind you this was before a cap was put on the Monoliths.

I'm sure you'd agree, it's a horrifying array of firepower wouldn't you?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:00 pm 
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I'm sure you'd agree, it's a horrifying array of firepower wouldn't you?


Yes, it's why the Necron army is overpowered; Too many Monoliths, too cheaply.

The phase out / teleport back in and repeat tactic only amplifies this potency.

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corey3750
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:33 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 23 2007,14:00)
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I'm sure you'd agree, it's a horrifying array of firepower wouldn't you?


Yes, it's why the Necron army is overpowered; Too many Monoliths, too cheaply.

The phase out / teleport back in and repeat tactic only amplifies this potency.

You didn't wait to hear what the results of the tactic were.

Yes, they destroyed the formation they attacked.  However, my opponent was well deployed to withstand the initial attack.

After sacrificing the picket formation, the Artillery company that I couldn't get to because of his deployment opened up.  The fire destroyed one of my unused Monolith's outright, and stripped most of the Obelisks off the other three.  You have to set them up fairly close in order to offer such fire support you see.  That Barrage's effects on the infantry can be well imagined.  The Phalanx was shattered, taking about 60% losses, and everything surviving was broken.

He then sustained with a Leman Russ formation and reduced the only remaining unused Monolith there to scrap metal.

In the later activations he sustained fire to finish off the broken Phalanx, and a 3rd Monolith.


While such a hit is nasty in the extreme, proper deployment makes a full shock attack straight in the Enemy's teeth on turn one suicidal at best.

But when I have previously explained the set ups to people the comment I hear most often is "I don't want to play that way!"

My heart bleeds... or it would if I had one to begin with.  My response to such comments (even when it was discussions about the Eldar) is always Adjust your tactics and play style to the army you fight or just concede that you have lost before you begin.  DO NOT expect the rules, or the army to change to meet your style of play.  I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone who isn't willing to adjust in order to beat his opponent.

I know it doesn't make people happy to say that, and it comes across as adversarial, but it's just how I feel on the subject.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:49 pm 
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You didn't wait to hear what the results of the tactic were.


Honestly, I didn't need to, because I've seen it used many times now.

It's practically unbeatable, if played correctly....




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Moscovian
 Post subject: Necron 4.2 - comments
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:51 pm 
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Well, I have seen this argument come up before.  Replace E&C's name with Neal's and we're back on page 6 of this thread.   The mere fact that Corey is one of two human beings on the planet who have consistently lost with the Necron, I think it safe to say a change is needed.

With that said Corey is offering an excellent solution.  The popcorn army may have a much more difficult time if the auto rally is removed.  With a 3+ to rally I can see things going much worse for the Necrons.  Changing the Initiative to 2+ now makes an even deeper cut into the Necrons since they now have to roll 4+ dice to unbreak.  This forces a player to put more of his force on the table, reinforce it properly, and leave the Destroyers (which will hopefully get its firepower sliced) for claiming objectives instead of wiping out entire formations in one volley.

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