I like my Option 1 for three reasons;

Firstly ease of list building (the basic formation costs for the standard two formations are immediately seen).

Secondly, and more importantly, it maintains 25 point intervals, which the other solutions don't.

Thirdly, and less importantly it allows the use of the "Monolith Phalanx" name from Apocalypse, for a formation of 3 Monoliths.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I like the idea of infiltrating Wraiths.

How about something like:



Returned as an upgrade for Warriors, Flayed Ones and Destroyers, remove the wraith formation.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I'm just telling you what I know from about a hundred emails that went back and forth between him and me.  

After thinking it over I would love to see the BMs on the units off board.  It would actually force the Necron player to use the Marshall function and that would make it a different feel to their play.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I like it.  

Dave, note the CC4+.  That makes them more agreeable?

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

From a design concept standpoint, what level of revision are you guys willing to do?

I know everyone wants to tune the lists as closely as possible but I think it could be worth it to consider whether there are things you can live with if they aren't super-tweaked so you can leave them alone.

Right now this thread has serious considerations of at least 4 datasheet changes (possibly 6, depending on how you count), 3 formation changes, the SR change, and at least one and possibly 2 major special rule changes.

That's a lot.

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Neal

Not really. Several of the changes were set 6 or 7 months back, agreed by the AC and have been playtested. They're even in the NetEA compilation draft list. I've just included them here for completeness' sake to show all changes since Raiders.

The only changes from that version are the monolith formation, (which I have tested 4 or 5 times, as have others), the wraith change (which we're still hashing out) the abbatoir (signed off on by the AC) and a potential change to the pylon (which Corey has shot down (pun intended)).

Other suggested changes are just spitballing.

If this round of changes is implemented I would foresee the list remaining static for at least a year, unless something serious rears its head. Remember that the list has hardly been touched in nearly 2 years now, so this isn't a huge amount of changes when that is considered.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Dropping the movement, adding infiltrator, removing invulnerable save, changing the CC and adding an extra attack is a lot of changes. Personally, I'd start small (drop the movement and add infiltrator) and see where that gets us.

That's my two cents, it's not my list.

And I await my sucker.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

Bear in mind that until the Raiders revision Wraiths were CC3+ EA+1, no first strike, with skimmer instead of jetpack. They changed a lot at the last revision and we're actually looking at changing some things back.

The Invulnerable Save should stay in my opinion; they phase in and out of solidity and so have a 3+ invulnerable save in 40k.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

As long as you guys are okay with it...

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Neal

I already sent him up there.  It's Dwarf Supreme.  
----
Neal, I share your concerns about the quantity of changes.  I'm willing to make my next few games all Necron to hammer them out.  This reminds me of the Eldar changes that took place which included removing special rules, changing stats, and all sorts of highly controversial stuff.  When I look at the list from afar I grimace with what this means.  However I have to say I've never seen the Necron community more aligned so if we don't do this now the Necrons may end up like the Tau or Tyranids (no offense to current Champs).

To put it in perspective for everyone... + and - changes to make stronger and weaker.
- The Monolith changes aren't doing anything other than firming up the structure of the formations to avoid popcorn lists.  

- The AA change on the Pylon will affect a handful of targets.

+ The Wraiths are being changed into something very similar to a tested model from the past.  However this is the most untested of all the ideas out here since Wraiths just haven't been used lately.  It probably deserves some attention from you Tomb-heads.

+ Abbatoir.  Another untested one that will need some love from the community.  Stat wise it seems like good move though.

+/- SR change is a push from most accounts.  Given this was the average SR I don't think anyone will notice except for the lack of character the list now has.

- 6BP to 4BP for the C'tan is not tested to my knowledge.  Make this #3 on the list of things to look at.

+/- Blast Markers.  IF we do this (allow BMs to accumulate), we're talking a serious change to the list.  It is like eliminating spirit stones from the Eldar.  I am not convinced it will be a huge negative and has the potential to be a plus, but there is no theory hammering this.  We've got to get this one right so I am asking for some real help in the form of batreps.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

The BM issue should probably be shelved for now until we've seen the effect of the more agreed changes on the list. It can be brought up again further down the line if neccessary. As you mentioned, it's a big change and not to be made lightly.

I only brought it up in the first place because it came up a lot in my Overdose of Obelisks game.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

i have to agree w/ leaving BMs alone for now.
ahh, finally the wraiths getting some attention. they simply have to move back to an upgrade. if they are given the infiltrate ability (which they should have) then they would be too similar to the flayed ones. making them an upgrade allows different play styles w/ the infantry phalanx which i think is a real plus.
i'm glad we have this discussion going again. with the new edenites and the beautiful obelisks and monoliths from zombo and jonluke, there is bound to be a lot more necron players soon. so it would be nice to have this all hashed out.

i forgot to mention the pylons. i'm in agreement w/ everyone else, we know it's not as good as everone thinks, but reducing it to TK1 isn't going to hurt. i think this is acceptable so i don't have to put up w/ all the crying from the space marine players out there.
the abbatoir i only have played a hand full of games with so i cannot comment too much.
i hate to bring in more possible changes, but there was mention a while back about the warbarque needing some changes. i don't agree but i thought i'd throw it out there in case someone has a good idea. i know adding an AA shot was suggested, which might be fun (not having to depend on the always broken pylon)

So moving off board you auto raly and shed all bms, but in the end phase (so you can't simply wander back on from somewhere else as part of the break move).

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No, you don't auto-rally any more.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread