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Tactical Command's Epic Line
hotwire
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:52 pm 
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I have noticed a huge potential for making your own models...

You all agree im sure its true

but who would think it a good idea to start like the Tactical Command Epic Line...obviously for trades not for sale to avoid decapitation by a GW inquisitor...but you know...this is really making me want to order more casting stuff....and Otterman is already like a genius...theres too many geniuses to mention...

who has anything to add or kill me for?

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:07 pm 
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It is not a bad idea. It not a new one either. Today this project is called DRM and Exdodus Wars. :D

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:13 pm 
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Well put, Warmaster.  :cool:

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hotwire
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:18 pm 
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not really..im reffering to models we dont have to pay for...models that we couldnt really reproduce..with all due respect i like the vallahan skidoo, the techpriest, the goliath gun and the other gun much more than EW stuff...and DRM isnt 100% compatible...its a different sci fi...

i mean EW is good...but i believe that the stuff made for oneself is better than stuff made on purpose to sell...so if we reproduce that after...

the way this woould work is that a set group of Tactical Command Epic Line leaders pick modifications they believe were made really well and then reproduce them (if person wants).

You see...logically if i make something for myself id want it to be nice...and others may want it...instead if i make things to sell ill make em good but..you know what i mean

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NOVAGUARD
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:27 pm 
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urmmm, a large part of what your proposeing may be seen as illigal... EW and DRM are independant companies with new and original designs..

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hotwire
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:28 pm 
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im tying to say that we will not charge ppl for it....nothing illegal in swapping things...otherwise a whole lot of pokemon kids would have been busted

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:04 pm 
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DRM & E/W, I've got'm all and will buy more as new are released !  So I feel, they are great and will work well with my EPIC collection ... as would GZG, SJG, etc.   I guess, it's all about what you are looking for.  If you want new "Epic" models ... as opposed to just great new 6mm Sci-fi ... That is a "horse of another Color" !  Don't know what to tell you ?   If someone molds a "Tech Priest" and you want to "trade" for it ... go for it ! :)

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TuffSkull
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:16 pm 
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Selling or trading individual conversions is not illegal. Go right ahead if thats your intention.

However, Casting copies of anything which contains a GW part, or can be proven to be directly based on GW IP & imagery IS against IP laws & could get this site into trouble.

For instance, my Golden Demon Logan. Its made more or less down one plane & would be suitable for casting. Its 80% greenstuff & putty. That makes no difference. It contains a GW part & is based on GW imagery. To cast it for trade, sale, or any other form of profit would be illegal.

If it wasn't I would be doing more sculpting myself!

Otterman is already walking a fine line.

The pieces are OOP, but if GW chose to go that route, it would make no difference. You are still de-valuating thier product should they see fit to re-release such things in the future (whlst we all know thats really not going to happen, thats not how the law works!)

I'm not trying to stop the concept but merely warning of the line GW could chose to take - Heck, I'd love to see what you came out with if it happens.... ;)

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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:19 pm 
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Alright perhaps it deserves a bit more explanation: A couple of years ago we had discussions on the board about the lack of availablilty for minis for certain races. It quickly became evident that a lot of people were interested in some suitable proxies if such were sculpted and cast. The big problem is where to draw the line:

1) How close can the miniature resemble GW ip?
2) How large quantities can you reproduce such minis in before it stops being "fiendly bitz swapping"
3) If it is to remain "friendly bitz swapping, where do you draw the line as to who will be allowed to get the minis? It quickly risk becomes an antisocial thing.

The simplest solution was to set up a company which produces minis the right size to use as proxies for Epic. The miniature lines would be different from GW to avoid IP issues but close enough to make decent proxies: Ie. GW does not have the IP for a "Sci Fi android race", or "Human Jungle Infantry" and at this scale a good paint jb can easily make  a convincing proxy for GW. The thing is that the guys behind DRM and EW are both regulars from EpiComms so they are more than wiling to listen to requests from the fans but for obvious reasons they can not and will not produce anything that infringe GW IP.

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Otterman
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:21 pm 
And as point of clarification, the Goliath was an old Epic model. I made them as spare parts for people who have bases but no cannons, or cannons with no bases.

How to stay out of trouble?

1) Do nothing, stay in bed. (Not acceptable)
2) If duplicating, don't do it for profit.
3) Try not to duplicate stuff still in production. We want to encourage the market, not replace it.
4) or finally, Synthesize things of our own.

I think (4) is the best route.

Vermis' tech priest, while is similar to GW's ideas, seems distinct to me. There's no reason it can't be "Guy with skull, robes, and widgets" (See Marvel's Red Skull and Doctor Octopus).

The skidoo is brilliant, but uses GW components. It seems legally dubious to sell for profit. (Then again, there is no competing product).

Some of the Necron stuff I'm doing is for my own purposes. But elements of it, like the pylons, are simple geometric shapes. Those could be sold, if anyone were foolish enough to give me money.
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Otterman
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:22 pm 

(hotwire @ Jan. 26 2007,10:52)
QUOTE
....and Otterman is already like a genius...

Thanks, but if I were a genius, I would have been able to replicate hormagaunts. I've tried five times now with no success.
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consectari
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:28 pm 
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(hotwire @ Jan. 26 2007,12:18)
QUOTE
not really..im reffering to models we dont have to pay for...models that we couldnt really reproduce..with all due respect i like the vallahan skidoo, the techpriest, the goliath gun and the other gun much more than EW stuff...and DRM isnt 100% compatible...its a different sci fi...

Ok, I trade around for recasts and stuff too, but in all honesty, the Goliath is an exact copy, ILLEGAL.

The Skidoo and Artillery piece, made with GW parts, ILLEGAL to recast.

The Techpriest, while an original sculpt, is still a Techpriest until you name it something else.  A techpriest is a GW concept and therefore, ILLEGAL.

This means for trade purposes, selling, or just for your own collection.  Nothing might happen to you, but it's still technically illegal.

Now the real reason I chimed in.  DRM & EW aren't "a different sci fi".  They were designed by Epic guys to save Epic.  Both are sculpted by the same man.  A man who has done work for Games Workshop.  

I usually try not to be blunt, but look at the DRM Jungle troops and tell me those are even a little different than Catachans.  The Khazari are just an updated Squat complete with bikes.  Most of the DRM human infantry has a 40k counterpart.  Andrayada are just generic enough to sub for several races.  Not everything has an exact Epic counter part, but they are an expansion of the 6mm Sci Fi universe.

And for the quality being less because they were made to sell, that's bull.  These guys made these minis, because the love minis.  They used a professional sculptor and it shows.  I can show you some "authentic" Epic minis that truly SUCK!  

Someone on this forum might do one better mini, but can they produce a whole line of that quality?  No, it's going to vary.  

Sure, someone can make a great mini by cutting up someone else's work and putting it back together in a different way, but you'll probably never see a recast of it as good as their original.

You may not be interested in something from another company, but DRM & EW aren't second class citizens.

Personally, I rate them several notches above SG/GW.

End rant...

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Otterman
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:31 pm 

(TuffSkull @ Jan. 26 2007,12:16)
QUOTE
Otterman is already walking a fine line.


I agree. That's why I try to make it clear that I'm not challenging GWs profit or right to profit, and I'm careful to not profit off of their stuff, or to threaten their image.

And that's also why I'm moving my efforts to my own commissions.
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TuffSkull
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:33 pm 
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(Warmaster Nice @ Jan. 26 2007,18:19)
QUOTE
The simplest solution was to set up a company which produces minis the right size to use as proxies for Epic.


DRM was actually already in its early stages before the inner circle group was created - it just didn't show its head for a very long time ?:blues:


The thing is that the guys behind DRM and EW are both regulars from EpiComms so they are more than wiling to listen to requests from the fans but for obvious reasons they can not and will not produce anything that infringe GW IP.


Absolutely. If there is call for particular new 6mm figures, and we can find a way to fit them into the DRM background & production schedules, then I can safely say we will.

This will soon be seen in our next terrain release - some stuff people have been caling for for a long while  :D


And as point of clarification, the Goliath was an old Epic model. I made them as spare parts for people who have bases but no cannons, or cannons with no bases.

I am well aware of what the goliath is. I was pointing out that It technically makes no difference - you're re-casting another companies product without a license. Not trying to paint you as a bad guy (you're certainly not y all accounts!), just making sure you're aware of it mate  :cool:

Vermis' tech priest, while is similar to GW's ideas, seems distinct to me. There's no reason it can't be "Guy with skull, robes, and widgets" (See Marvel's Red Skull and Doctor Octopus).

Absolutely, as long as you're careful to make sure it can't be linked back directly to GW's concepts and certainly dont refer to it as an epic piece, or indeed a techpriest!

The skidoo is brilliant, but uses GW components. It seems legally dubious to sell for profit. (Then again, there is no competing product).
I'm afraid there's no dubious about it. It would be illegal.

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Otterman
 Post subject: Tactical Command's Epic Line
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:33 pm 
And I'm also grateful for DRM and EW. They have a firm place in my budget.
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