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woulda coulda shoulda's
semajnollissor
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:46 pm 
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This thread has even less point than most, but I was wondering if any of you out there ever felt like I do sometimes.

Occasionally, I think up a rule that would make the game better (or it seems that way for at least 30 seconds, before I realize all of the holes in it). Sadly, it's too late to make suggestions for basic game development, but that won't stop me from posting a few of my ideas here. (I hope some of you will do the same).

The barrage table - use another approach: In stead of using the barrage table to determine the to-hit values, just use it to determine the number of templates/extra BMs. Have the to-hit values listed on the weapons' statline just like every other weapon. Barring that, maybe this:

Heavy Barrage
Any barrage weapon with this ability gains a +1 to-hit, in addition to any other modifiers.

- I think this would have been a good way of making the bombard a little more unique, plus it could be used to differentiate between normal bombers and "heavy" bombers. All in all, it would add more flexibility to barrage units.

I saw this next one brought up in a tyranid thread:

Heavy Infantry
Any unit with this ability may be targeted by both AP and AT fire. It is treated as infantry for all other purposes.

-This would be useful for larger/tougher infantry like bikes and termies (and apparently raveners, too). At this point, though, this would require a big rebalancing of armor saves and point costs, though. Oh well.

Are there any others that you've thought of?
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nealhunt
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:07 pm 
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Barrage:  I think that the barrage rules could benefit from a better way to differentiate different kinds of fire.  I've just not really seen a good way to do it without getting rather fiddly.

Heavy Infantry:  I actually think this would be a good unit type to have in the game.  I am opposed to having it included as an army-list special rule unless it is a core rule change.  There are simply too many units in too many armies that could reasonably claim to fit this category to have it done piecemeal.

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Jaldon
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:57 am 
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woulda, coulda, shoulda,

Sem where was this idea when we were working on the core rules (Heavy Infantry)  :cool:

I agree with Neal, it would work well as a 'game wide' category, and not so good as an army specific rule.

Many different ideas were suggested for Barrages, and discarded as too complex, too fiddly, or too hard to implement.

For good or ill, what we have is what we got, and it seems doing the present system for barrages one better would be tough. (Though it was tried at some length long ago)

Jaldon :p

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:27 am 
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well, the point of this topic wasn't so much my suggestions, but the theme of rules that fall under the heading "too late now."

I was wondering if any of you had any rules suggestions like that (just so we know the next time we redevelop epic).  :p
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:13 pm 
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Falling under "it's too late" might be allowing Titans, Gargants, etc. to split their fire among multiple detachments. I'd like to know who thought it would be a good idea to force Titans to fire at one, and only one, detachment. In my book, it's a waste of firepower and flexibility.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:12 pm 
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I think I will do so.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:41 pm 
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I think thats 2nd edition stuff surely?

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:44 pm 
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Do you mean 2nd edition as in SM/TL era, or 2nd edition as in E:A version 2.0?
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semajnollissor
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:02 pm 
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I've been thinking of the split-fire posibilities, but it seems to me if WE's could do it, then any formation should be able to do it. My reasoning is based on the idea that a 'Uge warband ought to be treated the same as a titan in this case.

The problem with splitting fire is that it would allow a single formation to put blast markers on multiple formations just for being shot at. So, what if the rule went something like this:

Split-fire:
A formation may opt to divide its fire in the shooting phase to target any enemy formation that is eligible. When this is done, all shots taken by the shooting formation carry a -1 to-hit modifier for each additional enemy formation targeted after the first (so splitting fire between 3 formations would give a -2 to-hit modifier), in addition to any other modifiers that would apply (due to move rate or cover, for example). Also, when a formation opts to split its fire, the targeted formations do not receive a blast marker for being fired upon, they only receive blast markers for casualties (or hits from disrupt weapons, etc).

[if you need some reasoning behind the targeted formations not receiving blast markers for coming under fire, maybe this will do: the members of each targeted formation hear the shots, but figure its another formation that is catching the fire, so they aren't all that concerned]

Anyway, those restrictions (-1 to-hit modifiers, no placement of BMs just for shooting at a formation) would make splitting fire somewhat viable. Maybe.
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:44 pm 
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That's a possibility, although I'm not sure I like the to-hit modifier. Would it be cumulative? Meaning, 0 to-hit modifier for first target, -1 for second, -2 for third, etc. Perhaps placing BMs only for casaulties would be sufficient.

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Markconz
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:00 pm 
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Split fire will never enter the EA rules (well, over Jervis's dead body maybe...).

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:19 pm 
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Yes, I had an email discussion about split-fire just as the EA trial rules were released. He is determined that it is a bad idea, in terms of both realism (concentrated fire is always going to get better effects) and gameplay (it forces tactical play, selecting just one target formation). I have to admit, that he convinced me that he was right about this one.

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Bombot
 Post subject: woulda coulda shoulda's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:32 pm 
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Conceptually I don't understand the heavy infantry idea.  I thought the idea was that, outside of firefight range, infantry are too small to be targetted by AT weapons.  Terminators (for example) aren't so much bigger than normal marines that they should be exempt from this concept, IMO.

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