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EpiComms Rules Additions

 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:55 pm 
Swarm Tyrant
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Hi guys. Something that I have been discussing is the posibility of a community compiled set of rules additions. Something like a document with changes and additions to the Epic Armageddon core rules which add to the game, clear up confusions or streamline the game where required. I could set up a new board dedicated to this, and the end result would be something that all Epic players could download, put together by the experience of the Epic gaming community.

What do you think? Is there interest in the idea?

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:44 am 
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YES!!! In particular the experimental rules for epic which seem dead in the water over at the official site.

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:47 am 
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I'll listen, watch  and add my 2? ... as needed ... :;):

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:30 am 
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I'd suggest a forum for discussion, and an easily accessible and regularly updated set of rules available in some easy-to-reach location, not lost in the threads. :D

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:47 am 
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Great Idea - as somebody who used the old official forum I always use them but I wonder how many people who are relatively new even know of them?

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:42 am 
Swarm Tyrant
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Great, that is settled. I will create a new board for this as soon as I get the time (hopefully later today). Initially, I will compile the various agreed rules ammendments into a single document, convert to PDF and pin it to a thread in on the board. When things have gathered momentum, I will host the document on the web site and update it from there.

Thanks guys.

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:18 am 
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This is a great idea, hurry up and get started :D

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:11 pm 
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I like this idea. Who knows, this might be the precursor to Net E:A. :laugh:

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:04 pm 
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1. Warmachine army is difficult to balance because it is most vunerable to a specialistic TK weapons. So if the opponent knows he will face Titans, he will take more TK weapons. If the list is balanced against a balanced army, it will always loose to a anti-Titan army.

Another problem is that SM have few TK weapons. I have been thinking about a general solution which could help with both problems. In short, I propose making all warmachines more vulnerable to jump-pack infantry in close combat.

It has been often said that every army should have a weakness. I don't think it is entirely correct. I think however it is undisputable that every formation should have a clear weakness, which can be avoided only by cooperation with other formations - eg Ork foot formations are slow, SM formations are small etc.

Titans and Warmachines in general, and specially fearless Warmachines seem to lack such a weakness. Should we for a moment leave the game and try to envision the imagined battlefield, one potential weakness appears - the warmachines are powerful, but not very manouverable. Shoud they be boarded by even one infantryman, they could be easily destroyed.

Titans, and most other warmachines are gigantic, and it wouldn't be easy for an infantryman starting at the groundlevel to reach the hatches. But there is one exception - Jump Packs allow easily to reach hatches, command head of a Titan etc and board it.

Because of that, I would suggest adding the following rule to Jump Pack rules:

"All close combat attacks of an infantry unit with Jump pack special rules, if directed against a warmachine, count as Macro Weapon attacks."

This introduces a clear weakness to warmachines, doesn't requires a new formation or unit and gives a purpose to Assault Marines.

It also provides a dual-use units, which can be used effectively both against Titans and other targets.

2. Maybe not necessary from the game mechanics point of view, but I think interesting option would be the following additional rule: "Infantry units with Jump pack special rule in contact with a skimmer use their Close Combat value, even if skimmer declares that it wants to use the Firefight value, (although the skimmer still gets to use Firefight value)."

This won't allow the Eldar skimmer warmachines to avoid close combat. It is justified, I think, since infantry with jump packs can always reach skimmer, even if they are rising high.

3. The rules for broken formation in EpicA are based on the decision not to rule in which direction broken formation should withdraw, which is difficult (they should move towards their own lines, but away from the enemy, avoid impassable and difficult terrain, etc) but  to introduce instead penalties for broken formation being near enemy. It generally works very well.

It breaks down only with wholly fearless formations, which are free from nearly all such penalties. As has been shown above, they can use withdrawal movements to advance, in the hope of rallying and assaulting enemy,  

I would suggest the following rule, added to the rules for the fearless units:

"Withdrawal usually represents a formation desperately trying to break away from the enemy, and so moving fast (taking two moves) but suffering additional casualties. But a formation composed only of fearless troops keeps cool nerves in the presence of the enemy. Even when broken, they seek cover, defend tenaciously any strong point and only unwillingly retreat. Because of that, they do not suffer additional casualties, but move slower.

Any formation consisting only of Fearless units makes only a single move (instead of two) when withdrawing."



4. There is also a lesser problem of using fearless formations to move on objective, ignoring zones of control. In regard to that problem I would propose the following rule change:

1.13.3 Withdrawals
....
Withdrawal moves may be made in any direction, but if a
unit ends the second withdrawal move within 15cm of the
enemy, it is destroyed (it is killed while trying to escape!).
Units belonging to formations withdrawing after lost engagement may ignore enemy zones of control while making a withdrawal move but may not move directly over enemy units. This do not applies to formations broken by Blast Markers or withdrawing after failing the rally roll in the end phase.


5. The last proposition is not rule change, but a facultative rule. I think it would make the game even more "realistic" or rather probable or plausible.

At present it is very easy to retreat from an enemy unit, even if it is very close. In reality it is one of the most difficult and dangerous manouvers. Additionally, it makes it more difficult to use close combat units. (It has also good side, as it requires more strategy from the close combat player.)

I would add the rule "Ambush".

If the only enemy formation within 15 cm of the player's formation that is not broken and had not marched makes a move, a double or a march action, or if it makes marshall or hold action and decides to move, the player can declare an ambush. The enemy formation doesn't make a move, but instead counts as assaulting the player's formation. The ambushed formation (counting as the attacker) cannot make charge moves. The ambushing formation (the defender) can make countercharge moves as normal. After that both formation fight an assault according to normal rules. If the ambushed formation wins, it can make the declared action (move, double etc).

A formation consisting only of scout units cannot be ambushed. The ambush cannot be combined with the overwatch fire by the same formation.

In this way, a formation cannot simply move away at full speed from a close enemy. It needs to get other formation to provide covering fire. It can also declare engage action and move away - it would represent a formation sneaking away, sacrificing speed and fire for a chance to break contact.






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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:17 pm 
Swarm Tyrant
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There seemed to be a lot of interest in this idea... but few posts.

How about we start with a 'round up' of the potential experimental rules that are *ahem* slightly overdue. Anyone want to summarise these?

Thanks.

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:21 pm 
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from old forum - experimental assault rules

1.12.5 Resolve Assault (change)

All units have two assault values: a close combat value and a firefight value. Units that are in base-to-base contact with the enemy use the close combat value, while units thatare not in base contact but are within 15cm and have a line of fire to the enemy can use their firefight value. Units that are armed only with close combat weapons and do not have any small arms or other ranged weapons may only attack if in base contact with the enemy.

Roll 1D6 for each unit that may attack. Note that Blast markers do not suppress units from formations involved in an assault ? it is assumed that the proximity of the enemy means that everyone joins in! Compare the dice roll to the unit?s close combat value if it?s in contact with the enemy, or its firefight value if it?s within 15cm of the enemy but not in base contact. If the dice roll is equal to or greater than the relevant value, then a hit is scored on the enemy. No modifiers ever apply to these dice rolls.

Each player allocates the hits and make saving throws in the same manner as they would when allocating hits from shooting (see Experimental Hit Allocation). Hits may only be allocated to units that were directly engaged in the combat (ie, that belonged to the attacking or defending formation and which were within 15cms of the enemy after charge and counter-charge moves were completed). Infantry units from formations takinga charge action may not take cover saves (they are assumed to have left cover to charge the enemy), but other infantry units may take cover saves normally.

Note: The old restriction about allocating MW to units that are 'in range' no longer apply, so CC MW hits inflicted by a unit in base contact with the enemy can be allocatedto units further away if all units in base contact are eliminated.

If all of the units in the defending formation have been killed and at least one attacker survives, then the attacker wins and the assault is over (see 1.12.8).

If all of the attacking units directly engaged in the assault are killed then the assault has stalled and the defender wins (see 1.12.8). 'Directly engaged' means being within 15cm of a defending unit after charge and counter-charge moves have been completed. If even one of the original attackers that was within 15cms of the enemy survives, then the attack has not stalled.

In any other case, both sides can call on support (see 1.12.6).

Important Note: Kills inflicted in an assault do not count for placing blast markers or fo rbreaking a formation until AFTER the result of the combat has been worked out. Also note that the attacker must completely destroy the defending formation to win at this stage, while all the defender has to do is to kill all the attacking units that made it to within 15cms of a defender.

1.12.6 Supporting Fire (addition/change)

Both sides may call upon support unless the defender has been wiped out or the attack stalled as described above. Calling on support allows units from other formations to attack with their firefight value if they are within 15cm and have a line of fire to an enemy unit directly involved in the assault. In this case ?directly involved? means belonging to the attacking or defending formation(s) and in a position to attack. This rulerepresents units from both sides that are not directly involved in the assault lending supporting fire when they see their friends coming under attack. Units from formations that are either Broken or Marched this turn cannot lend support.

Roll to hit using the firefight values of the supporting formations, and then allocate hits and make saving throws as you would do for shooting attacks. Once all casualties have been removed you must work out the result of the attack (see 1.12.7).

1.12.7 Work Out Result (addition/change)

After both players have removed casualties, the outcome of the combat must be decided. First, if one side completely wiped the other side out, then it is the winner. If this isn?t the case then each player rolls 2D6, and adds any modifiers that apply from the chart below to the single D6 that rolled highest. Note that you don?t add your dice rolls together, but use the single dice with the highest score. Whoever has the higher score after any modifiers have been added wins the assault.

In the case of a tied dice roll fight a second assault using any surviving units, starting with step 4 (i.e. roll dice, allocate hits, make saves and resolve the combat all over againwith any survivors). Units from both sides are allowed to make a counter charge move before the second round is fought, with the attacker moving his counter charging units first (see x.x). If a second round is fought then any casualties from the first round carry over when working out the result of the combat.

1.12.8 Loser Withdraws (add the following at the start, before the first paragraph)

After the result of the combat has been worked out (either because all defending units were destroyed, or the attack stalled, or through a result roll), then the loser is broken and must withdraw, and formations on the winning side receive Blast markers for the casualties they suffered.

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:23 pm 
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from old forum - experimental barrage rules
1.9.8 Barrage Table

Change the To Hit rolls for 3 point barrages to AP4+/AT5+.

2.2.6 Macro-Weapons

Change the paragraph for barrages to the following:

Barrages: Work out the macro-weapon?s barrage normally. Use the To Hit Rolls for AP weapons against any targets hit by a macro-weapon. Units do not receive a saving throw unless they have reinforced armour or an invulnerable save.

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:25 pm 
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From old forum - experimental hit allocation
1.9.6 Allocate Hits & Make Saving Throws
The hits inflicted on a formation are allocated against eligible targets that are in range and the line of fire of the enemy. Hits are allocated by the defender (ie, the player whose formation is under attack) ?from the front to the back? of a formation. Note that this is the opposite of suppression. You may not allocate a second hit to a unit until one hit has beenallocated to every potential target, or allocate a third hit until all targets have beenallocated two hits, etc.

The defender may allocate the hits that have been caused in any order he likes. However, hits can only be allocated against units that they can affect (eg, AT hits may not be allocated to infantry units, and AP hits may only be allocated against armoured vehicles), and hits must be allocated to the closest potential target first.

Note: Hits are assigned front to back in any order (eg AP,AP, AT, AT, MW, AT, MW, AP, AT). Once all hits have been allocated make saving throws for each unit that has been hit, using the unit?s Armour value from its datasheet or the cover save from the terrain table. Roll a D6: if the score is lower than the Armour value or cover save value than the unit fails its save, and is destroyed and removed from play. If the roll is equal to or greater than the armour or cover value then the unit is saved and it remains in play. Make a separate armour save for each hit the unit suffers. Remember that the target formation receives a blast marker for each unit that is destroyed.

1.12.5 Resolve Attacks (replace paragraph 4 & 5 with the following rule)
Each player allocates the hits and make saving throws in the same manner as they would when allocating hits from shooting. Hits may only be allocated to units that were directlyengaged in the combat (i.e., that belonged to the attacking or defending formation andwhich were within 15cms of the enemy). Infantry units from formations taking a charge action may not take cover saves (they are assumed to have left cover to charge theenemy), but other infantry units may take cover saves normally.

2.2.6 Macro-weapons (delete the ?Allocating Hits? rule ? allocate the hits using therules above)
Note: The old restriction about allocating MW to units range' no longer apply, so CCMW hits inflicted by a unit in base contact with be allocated to units further away if allunits in base contact are eliminated.

3.2.5 Titan Killer Weapons
If a Titan Killer weapon is fired at a formation that includes both war engines and other types of units then the defender *must* allocate all the Titan Killer weapon hits to warengine targets. Roll for damage immediately after allocating the hit. The War Engine counts as having been allocated a number of hits equal to the damage rolled.

Note: I went with the defender allocating the hit as that is the way that the 'core' rule(1.9.6) works (so as to avoid 'sniping' when allocating MW hits). What the TK rule means is that TK hits *must* be allocated to WE if there are any in a formation - note you don't have a choice in the matter. This is a bit like AP and AT hits needing to be allocated to units they can effect. With AP and AT hits, however, we ignore what happens if they have to be allocated to targets that they can't effect as... well they can't effect them! With TK weapons if there are no WE in the formation they can still effect other targets.

DESIGN CONCEPT: Speed Dice Rolling
It is possible to speed up dice rolling without altering the overall result of shooting by allocating hits against units of the same type as a group, and then making all of the saves together, and finally removing casualties from the models closest to the enemy. For example, if a unit of six Space Marines and Three Rhinos took 3 AP hits and 2 AT hits, then the defender could simply say "I allocate the AP hits to the Marines and the AT hits to the Rhinos". He would then roll 3 dice for the Marines saves, removing any casualties by eliminating the Marine units closest to the enemy, followed by rolling 2 dice for theRhino's saves and removing any casualties in a similar manner. Please note that you will need to agree with your opponent that it's okay to use this method to allocate hits in this way, and that even if an opponent agrees, he can still ask for you to use the 'official'method in situations where he feels it is warranted.

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:27 pm 
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from old forum - experimental aircraft rules
4.2 Combat Air Patrol (add to end of second paragraph)

Formations that are on CAP remain on CAP until they make an interception. If they haven't made an Interception by the end of the turn, then they can either stand down and return to base normally, or remain on CAP into the following turn.

4.2.3 Anti-aircraft attacks (add to end of second paragraph)

Aircraft that are carrying out a CAP or Intercept action may add +1 to all of their to hit rolls.

4.2 Combat Air Patrol (add to end of second paragraph)

Formations that are on CAP remain on CAP until they make an interception. If they haven't made an Interception by the end of the turn, then they can either stand down and return to base normally, or remain on CAP into the following turn.

4.2.3 Anti-aircraft attacks (add to end of second paragraph)

Aircraft that are carrying out a CAP or Intercept action may add +1 to all of their to hit rolls.

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 Post subject: EpiComms Rules Additions
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:09 pm 
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The last two parts of the experimental rules are missing...pop ups and Sentry (garrison formations on overwatch).

Not that i relish going through them again , but could they also be added to the ones above.
???

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