Tactical Command
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Activation advantage proposal
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=33140		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Markconz [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Activation advantage proposal
Something very simple tried out in last game to try and counter the disadvantage of low activation armies.

Army with lowest activation count gets a free command reroll per turn.

Justified as representing the fact it's easier to co-ordinate a smaller number of commands perhaps, but really it's there for balance reasons. Yes it's a very simple rule, which I quite like, and you kind of barter for it with the number of commands you take.

A perhaps more balanced version would be.

Army with lowest activation count gets free command reroll per turn, if the opponent has at least one extra formation per 1000 points.

I.e. you get the reroll if the opponent has 2 extra activations at 2K, 3 extra activations at 3K, and so on.
Author:  mordoten [ Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
I like it!
Author:  Mrdiealot [ Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
Well worth trying out I think.
Author:  Markconz [ Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
Cheers, pretty keen to keep testing it, probably the second version.
Author:  Sayrewolf [ Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
The second rule sounds eminently fair. Still might be a bit OP with some space marine lists though....
Author:  Cyguns [ Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
Where is this re-roll coming from? Is it the Supreme Commander that gains this extra roll?
In other words, if the SC dies or you’d loose both rolls right?
Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
Interesting one, especially for friendly play. When is activation count counted? once at start of game, or re-count start of each turn? do spaceships count?
Author:  Markconz [ Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
Judged once from start of game, and yes spaceships count.
We've played it doesn't come from 'anywhere' particularly, rather rationalised as smaller number of units = smaller number of moving parts to co-ordinate with each other and stick to a plan, so you just get the reroll.

It's simple and have used it for a while (the second version, where you need an extra activation per 1000 points to trigger it). Often it hasn't come in because activation count is too similar, but when it does it come in it makes those smaller activation armies feel more viable.
Author:  Thinking Stone [ Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
This is something I’ve thought worth addressing for a while! In an ideal world, I’d prefer a more substantial change to how command structures work in EA (as noted, it’s a bit counter-intuitive that more units always = better command structure), but this one is nice and simple!

I like Option 2 for its scalability, too. Interested to see how people find it!
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
Always thought that Commander units on the battlefield would be a niche for keeping c&c for large armies going would be a good idea. Like over a certain number of formations on the table needing a Commander unit on the table to avoid a penalty
Author:  Thinking Stone [ Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
jimmyzimms wrote:
Always thought that Commander units on the battlefield would be a niche for keeping c&c for large armies going would be a good idea. Like over a certain number of formations on the table needing a Commander unit on the table to avoid a penalty


That’s along the lines of what I’d like best. One way I thought of achieving that would be that you get a certain number of ‘activation points’ for the number of commanders you have on the table—that would mean you build forces around your command structure, rather than tacking it on as EA works now. You’d also then have incentive to attack the command structure of the enemy (and Tyranids would be a bit less unusual with Synapse).

You could then tweak the number of activation points required to do certain actions, or use activation points to improve initiative rolls, use activation points to ‘pass’ activations, and so on.
Author:  Ginger [ Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
Not a bad thought, though it may require some changes to the lists, or definitions of what constitutes a ‘commander’ for Orks, Tau etc.

So, if I have understood the proposition, all lists might need a commander per four formations or suffer some penalty, and where that ratio is reduced, the same penalty applies.
What penalties do you envisage?
- giving the opponent an extra SC roll?
- removing an activation from a player?
- something else?
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
I'd never make it equal and a blanket value across lists. Whatever it is should be some function based on the SR of the army. Basically better trained armies should require less but not a ton less. Make sense?

So what about commander per N +1 formations where N is equal to list SR. SC counts as 2 Commanders for this evaluation.

If you're under then you suffer on your initiative roll and can't retain. Seems high activation armies really try to 1-2 combo you with tons of targets.
Author:  Shoel [ Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Activation advantage proposal
Or that once all activation rolls have been used only normal or marschall actions are allowed?
Author:  Thinking Stone [ Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Activation advantage proposal
jimmyzimms wrote:
I'd never make it equal and a blanket value across lists. Whatever it is should be some function based on the SR of the army. Basically better trained armies should require less but not a ton less. Make sense?

So what about commander per N +1 formations where N is equal to list SR. SC counts as 2 Commanders for this evaluation.

If you're under then you suffer on your initiative roll and can't retain. Seems high activation armies really try to 1-2 combo you with tons of targets.


My thoughts would be to say if you’re out of activations, you can only make whatever actions you’d make on a failed initiative roll (said broadly deliberately in case that definition changes). I think EA actually covers that fairly well.

The way I’d do it is you wouldn’t be forced to take a certain number of commanders, but you’d be rewarded for sacrificing more points into them by having better command abilities. I’d make Supreme Commander group activations and Initiative retention things you can do with ‘excess command points’, as well as maybe something that allows you to modify Initiative rolls (you could remove them too, but I think they’re probably too core to the game for that, and they do some nice things). You could also make some other abilities work by using a ‘command point’ (e.g. an Inspiring that takes an activation point). You’d also need some default command points (maybe per points level?); I kind of like the idea that scouting units that lack commanders are a bit of an opportunity cost, but you could make all units have a commander option, too.

Doing it this way lets you sacrifice activating certain units to their full abilities in order to take tactical advantages elsewhere, which I kind of like (e.g. sorry Mrs Titan, you can’t Marshall because Supreme Com. has to Engage and all the other commanders are dead).

You could also tie activation point usage into scoring (e.g. 1 AP => 1 score point).

So, a rough idea of what I’m envisioning. You’d get this many activation points per turn:
* X activation points per 500 pts
* 1 activation point per (alive) Leader
* 3 activation points per (alive) Supreme Commander

You can use activation points for these things:
* 1 activation point to activate a unit (normal Initiative roll, etc.)
* Modify Initiative rolls by 1 point for each Activation point
* Group activation (like Supercom) 2 points per additional unit (maybe discounted if Supercom is leading it?) to a max of 3 units
* Retaining the Initiative takes 1 extra activation point over the normal 1 to activate (i.e. 2 points for Retaining in total)

A unit may perform a Hold action if there are insufficient Activation Points to activate it.

Obviously the specific numbers need fine-tuning, but that’s the idea I’ve had bubbling away for a little while.
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