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UK tournament scene
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: UK tournament scene
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:20 am 
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I think Matt Otter is interested in doing his own set of changes, yes.


And yes, it is the opposite of JJ's approach.


JJ's approach to the 2008 rules review:
- Change only unit stats so that tournament lists remain legal. Change only the minimum nessesary too (Upgunning underpowered units is unimportant, but downgrading overpowered units is important).


Matt Otter's approach to his own rules review:
- Change only points costs so that players will know what they're facing once the models are on the table. Don't touch stats so that the tournies will be approachable.



There are advantages and drawbacks to both approaches.


I think that UK tournament goers just need to start pushing him on this matter if the changes are wanted in UK as well ...


Most of the tournament players don't post to this board (They have their own news-board somewhere I think).

Matt will be at the London Tournament though I think (And his rules changes will be used to run the tournament too).




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: UK tournament scene
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:39 am 
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Really something in the middle would be better. Preferably with as few as possible changes to anything.

You could do it with just points value changes, but it would be tricky with stuff like Baneblades then fitting into the army list.  And really you could get all the core changes fitting onto an A4 side.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: UK tournament scene
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:39 am 
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I agree the middleground is better.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: UK tournament scene
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:48 am 
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Interestingly Hena, we had a quick chat about the Marines.

He would do something like:

4 Vindicators - 225pts
4 Predators - 250pts
4 Land Raiders - 350pts (Or perhaps slightly less)

Upgrades would go from 75pts to 50pts for Vindicators, or from 100pts to 75pts for Land Raiders, etc.

Now I think this is largely a good way to help balance the Marines and I think his proposed points drops for the tanks are about right if you're not touching the stats, but you do end up with one type of Predator still being worth more than the other, because of the lack of a FF pip change...

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: UK tournament scene
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:03 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ May 28 2008,11:20)
QUOTE
Most of the tournament players don't post to this board (They have their own news-board somewhere I think).

At various times most of the regular tournament players have posted to these boards and alot still review the discussions that take place. There has been a feeling in the past that comments were ignored when play testing comments were posted.

However with the exception of a couple of tournament players that are not interested in playtesting / rules reviews most are on this forum.

Our tournaments are also becoming larger and better supported with many new players making the effort to attend. A big nod to those that visited during the CC but were unable to play.

Of course soon we will assimilate Hena into our happy band - One of us, One of us ?:laugh:

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Mephiston
 Post subject: UK tournament scene
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:04 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ May 28 2008,11:20)
QUOTE
I think Matt Otter is interested in doing his own set of changes, yes.

Most of the tournament players don't post to this board (They have their own news-board somewhere I think).

It's my understanding that Matt will be doing his own set of changes too.

The majority, if not all, of the regular tournament attendees are members of this forum, and there is no UK tourny forum that I know of. Matt does email all previous tournament attendees with dates of new comps.
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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: UK tournament scene
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:43 pm 
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I have to agree, Hena. I would rather we have a single set of revisions and all play the same game. I want us to progress with Nids, AMTL and Tau as well as variant lists for Eldar. This will become progressively more difficult if the community diverges. As to the UK tournament rules review, I can't see Matt trying to act as a dictator and we, the tournament players, will get our chance for input. I for one will be looking for concensus across the community not short sighted UK only changes.

Oh yes, you forgot that Speed Freaks & Ferals are also championed by a UK tournament player and the AMTL champion has attended one tournament and is going to be at London as well.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: UK tournament scene
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:56 pm 
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If the UK tournaments are run by a person who will not accept any input from anyone that does not play in his tournaments, then ... well not much I can accomplish.


Indeed.


As to the UK tournament rules review, I can't see Matt trying to act as a dictator and we, the tournament players, will get our chance for input.

The problem comes when non-tourney players (Like myself for example) want to play in one of Matt's tourneys.

We won't be using the core book rules, because they're (slightly) unbalanced, and we won't be using the Tac Comms rules even though they'll be the most balanced, because Matt feels it's unsuitable...

...essentially, we're looking at the UK tourney scene going schismatic on us, like the French before them...


Most of the UK tourney chaps seem to think the Black Legion list is fine, for example, contrary to the majority opinion elsewhere.

I think it has serious internal balance issues that mean that all competative army lists look nigh-identical, but that simply won't be addressed by Matt's review style... which is a pity.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: UK tournament scene
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:07 pm 
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I'm in agreement with Matt in regards to what would be the most functional approach - primarily point tweaks with the bare minimum of stat changes when absolutely necessary.  I think point-only, or almost point-only is the easiest for players to deal with.

Changing stats can impact strategies and play style as certain things become more or less effective.  Changing points only affects the amount of material you can put on the board.

I'd like to see Matt's ideas for changes if he's willing to share.  The goal of the "tourney mods" is to get something that can be easily accessed and readily used by as large a group of casual players as possible.  If the ACs could come to some sort of middle ground with Matt so we could implement identical changes, then the goal of having a widely accepted alternative with high utility would essentially be accomplished.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: UK tournament scene
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:49 pm 
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What could be good regardless of what happens is for a series of stripped down lists were made to be used by a tourney, in essence the current lists minus the flavour text, pics etc (or even just better summary sheets) and army list. Twould save a main rulebook being used, the errata from 2008 and then any changes to lists as decided from that tourney organiser.

They could follow the somewhat dull but functional format below as they exist solely for rules purposes.

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