Yeah well no surprise you want to continue arguing about it Hena. Good luck in coming up an alternative that has anything close to the support that last poll had, I know I've done my best. And yes I closed it and yes I decide. Who else is going to given the current situation - you?
To set the record straight it was as I said it was:
13 for MW (in some form)
6 for your extra attack idea... (hmm interesting).
8 for something else including yet more people specifying different MW proposals (I watched the voting and comments carefully).
Trying to misrepresent it as you have is just stupid.
Here's the thread (that you should have linked to):
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....=10073;
Here is my full final post I made saying why I ended it:
Problems Neal.
First off - vindis will get a speed increase, that isn't even a matter of debate as far as I can see. Walker also perhaps.
Now for the actual demolisher which is why I started this thread.
1. FF3+ on vindis has been debated and shot down before. Vindi has much less Firepower than a LR Demolisher and the only gun it does have is one that is also on a LR Demolisher - and yet you want to give it the same FF? A little problematic. Yes you might say a marine demolisher is better somehow... but that idea has also been shot down numerous times previously...
2. Constant ongoing criticisms exist that the Demolisher stats are simply not appropriate. Ogryn clubs are MW but the most powerful gun in 40k is not? Come on. People want this gun to bust things ? it hits it should be very bad news for the target. Not some minor weird abstraction that is little different to what ended up going into the EA rules first time around and causing problems. Epic 40k was criticised for not having the feel of individual weapons correct, and this certainly feels like a case of that again to me.
3. This poll and all the many prior debate and polls on this subject. About half of people polled so far support the MW proposal. Even more voting for option 3 support MW in some form if not exactly the one above (ie they want it MW but more or less powerful in various ways). In short MW ideas have a high level of acceptance, other ideas have much more marginal and isolated support.
4. This debate is a VERY old one. Here we have yet another 100 post long thread on the subject, but at least it seems to have found (as E&C said) a "nonconservative consensus" which is far better than anything I've seen before on the subject. People have had plenty long enough to make up their mind by now - literally years. At some point this ridiculous neverending process has to stop and a decision has to be made.
I've recorded at least half and really more like 2/3 in favour of MW in some form, equal, or more or less powerful than proposal number 1 above. I have first playtest reports from people who have got sick of waiting and are saying they like MW on their vindis and baneblades. I'm seeing a remaining 1/3 of people who all seem to have their own highly individual pet desires in one direction or another.
Why would I want to continue with the endless circular debate on this after all these years when I have that? Why would I want to continue annoying the majority of epic players on this issue? As far as I'm concerned I'm ready to bank it. People can start another debate on this if they want but I am done for now. Any new debate I will point people to this.
Good enough for now. If it doesn't work out it, it can be changed at a later date and good luck to anyone else who wants to try and debate this all over again. Enough of a mandate for me to stick it in the handbook, and happy to switch at some future point if that is proven necessary.
Post 99 = topic closed and all demolishers become MW4+ Ignore Cover. Thanks for the votes and feedback.
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