So should some word-smithing be done to the Necron Portal rule or should there be a general FAQ about all portals with regards to this? My vote is the former.

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Dave

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no.

I'm not going to throw everything straight in the bin and start over due to this.  If I have to, I'll just make a special exception to the rules as they apply to the Necrons.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

yes you have.

Use of the Marshall action to get onto the table and THEN regenerate units was part of the intended design.

However, the idea of using a Marshal action, making a move of "0", staying off board, and regenerating units is a problem for me.

As is failing an activation, staying off board, and regenerating units.

Or marshalling to Move off board, and then regnerating units.

The fact is, there IS a difference between an on-board formation that regrouped and an off-board.

If the formation is on the table, the enemy can shoot it.  If they are offboard, not only has the activation giving you it's intended benefits, it's given you the ADDITIONAL benefit of being invincible, and cost you nothing.

Because your turn is just as "wasted" if you stay on the board and regroup, as it is if you leave the board and regroup, except moving offboard is an aditional, significant advantage.  Especially when one of the formations that can do it can easily be your BTS formation.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

Well, with pre-Necron Eldar we said they were not forced to enter play if they failed to activate.  A Hold action retained the choice of Move or Regroup.

I suppose that's really an exception to the "must try to enter play" concept ... which means it's not really like the ZoC/formation restrictions at all and I shouldn't have used that example.

*sigh*

So, I see two options to for a fairly clean ruling:  Make it all like the prior Eldar answer with an explicit exception to allow a Hold/Regroup, or stick with the "must move" options where that's it - if you can't move, you effectively lose your action and/or units.

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Neal

Well, let me ask you this:  Since we did up the change doc for the pending update, what has your playtesting shown in terms of regeneration, activation failure rate, and so on?  Have you had any games that the new regeneration rule has made a marked difference?

As for special rules, if you are going to make an exception it should be that the ONLY place a formation can regenerate is off board.  That makes more sense than only ON board.  I don't think we need a special rule but I am pointing out that the logic of eliminating off board regeneration is flawed.

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Could you expand further on why you feel the formation may not elect to marshall and 'burn' an activation. As others have said, 'stalling' off-table formations is permitted to aircraft, it is a legitimate on-table activity, and it does not seem to be a huge problem to those fighting Eldar (at least on the few occasions I have done it). Equally the enemy has a number of counters to minimise the threats or even take advantage of the reduced formation numbers, not least being to threaten or destroy the gates.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

I'm not entirely in agreement with it, because it just seems wrong to me...

But to be honest, I think this would be something that should be tested out to see how it might affect gameplay before a final determination is made.  

It could be that I'm just overly concerned by the tactical implications.     And if it turns out I'm not, and it has a profound effect on the Necrons, there's always the option of adding a special limitation to the list's rules.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

There's the *cost* of not having a formation on the table... it can't block the enemy's progress nor cause them any harm nor affect rallies in the End Phase... those aren't negligible costs at all.

And, while a humourous jab, this "issue" really has nothing to do with Eldar abilities/actions... still feel free to poke 'em!  

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Agreed.


Agreed.  I don't think that anyone's supported that beyond asking what the consequences would be.


This one bothers me less.  As noted above, Necrons get a substantially better Hold option than any other army all the time.  I don't see this being especially egregious in that respect and since it can't be actively declared, it won't be common.  I understand it as a theoretical issue but I don't think it's something to worry about in practice.


This one I don't understand.  Moving off-board is always a potential benefit to Necrons.  How is this worse than a post-assault consolidation move off-board to where they are invincible, for example?

Your turn is not as "wasted" if you stay on board.  Obviously, the formation is vulnerable if you stay on the board.  However, the formation counts for objectives and goals, provides ZoC, provides FF support in assaults and so on.


I'd be okay with an across-the-board "no Regrouping to regenerate units off-board" restriction on the Necron rule.  I'm just not convinced that it will really be necessary once we iron out the general portal/wraithgate concept.

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Neal

Well, that post wasn't necessarily "how it should be" but "best attempt at applying the RAW to a weird situation".  And, of course, it rapidly fell apart.


Yep.

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Neal

As Mosc pointed out, it's completely realistic, and even Fluffy for the Necron's to do this very thing.  After all, repairing fallen Necrons is exactly why the fallen phase out in the first place:  So they can return to their tomb to be repaired if they lack the ablity to repair themselves.

It just feels abusive to me.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

Technically, one could declare you're taking a "Hold" action, roll, and whether you fail or not, take a Hold and just pick the "regroup" portion.

I've specifically chosen to "Hold" with a close-combat formation that didn't want to trigger overwatch by taking an order with a move involved on occassion.

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How does it feel "abusive", Corey?

Necron formations can already move to "hide" in portals to escape enemy retaliation.  To benefit from off-board repairs, they, essentially, have to pay a "turn" to do it... that seems to be a fair cost.

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Corey and Neal, please could you elaborate more on this as it seems to be at the heart of the debate, and I for one would prefer to allow the player the option to burn an activation, staying off-table (and regenerating in the case of Necrons). I can envisage situations where forcing a formation to be put on-table would be just as problematic and 'gamey'.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt