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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 356
Location: Beavercreek, Ohio, USA
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jul. 25 2007,18:06)
QUOTE If people want to improve the Vindicator they should increase its speed to match the Predators and increase the points cost to reflect that change.
That makes me chuckle.
When was the last time you used Vindicators in a game that did anything except:
a - Fire a couple of shots, and maybe kill a negligable ammount of enemy infantry.
b - Get shot and become a combat innefective formation.
For four AV's, with just four short-ranged shots, they are horribly expensive.
They wouldn't be worth their points cost in any army in the game.
I'm glad I was able to make you laugh, as misplaced as it might be.
I was in the process of writing this long analysis to prove my point when I realized that I factored things wrong in the beginning, stemming from placing too much value in the Ignore Cover special ability. ?During the writing of this I have decided to change my opinion regarding the Vindicator; I think that it definately should have its speed increased from 20cm to 30cm without any change in points cost. ?Read on if you want to find out why.
Vindicators are special purpose tanks, designed to go after units that are in cover and blast them. ?They are not open field fighters, they are not intended to go toe-to-toe with MBT, and they should not be used like any other unit in the Space Marine arsenal. ?Vindicators are tools intended to perform a specific job, and that's it. ?The Vindicator is the only Space Marine unit that has an "Ignore Cover" weapon, and if you intentionally use it for any porpose other than supporting operations then it is going to perform poorly.
There are two methodologies for employing the Vindicator: Tactical Support and Operational Support. ?
Tactical Support is where you throw one or two Vindicators in with a detachment of infantry to support them. ?Yes, you could use Predator Destructors for this, and they will have advantages in range and volume of fire, but their to-hits stink and they don't ignore cover. ?How would you use a Vindicator in WH40K? ?Scale it down for Epic...
Operational Support is where you put a detachment of 4 (or more) of them together and send them after an entrenched strongpoint, almost to the exclusion of everything else. ?A hunter-killer team.
Now you may be saying: "Yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. ?I already know this." ?OK, then let's talk numbers.
The Vindicator has the Demolisher Cannon, which has a 30cm range a AP3+/AT4+ rating, and the Ignore Cover special ability. ?Let's say that there will be an equal chance of an infantry or armored vehicle target available to shoot and that the player is not predisposed to shooting at one over the other. ?That would mean that you average the to-hit probabilities, 66.667% against infantry and 50% for armored vehicles, to a 58.333% chance of hitting something. ?Since various weapons have different ranges, and range does matter, as a quick way to represent the benefits of range let's multiply the probability to kill something by the number of 15cm increments the range of the weapon has. ?So for the 30cm ranged weapon we multiply by 2 (30cm/15cm increments = 2) the 58.333% chance of hitting something to get a 116.667%-brackets number. ?To factor in the Ignore Cover special ability, which ignores the -1 to-hit modifier (16.667% shift in probability) for cover and negates infantry cover saves, we'll multiply the final number by 1.16667 giving a final 136.111%-brackets number.
The Predator Destructor has an autocannon, which has a 45cm range and a AP5+/AT6+ rating, and two Heavy Bolters which have a 30cm range and a AP5+ rating. ?Let's say that there will be an equal chance of an infantry or armored vehicle target available to shoot and that the player is not predisposed to shooting at one over the other. ?That would mean that you average the to-hit probabilities of each weapon, multiply by the number of range brackets they can reach, and add them together. ?The autocannon has a 33.333% against infantry and 16.666% for armored vehicles, averaging to a 25.0% chance of hitting something. ?Multiply this by the 3 range brackets it can reach and you get the number 75.0%-brackets. ?The heavy bolters have a 33.333% against infantry and 0.00% for armored vehicles, averaging to a 16.667% chance of hitting something. ?Multiply this by the 2 range brackets they can reach and you get the number 33.333%-brackets. ?Add all three numbers together and you get 141.667%-brackets.
Compare the 2 numbers: 136.111%-brackets for the Vindicator and 141.667%-brackets for the Predator Destructor and you see that the Vindicator has 96.61% as much firepower as the Predator Destructor. ?I'll call that close enough to even to say that the two tanks have equal firepower.
But there is still one difference between the Vindicator and the Predator Destructor: their speed. ?Assuming that the universally agreed upon change of giving the Predator Destructor a 4+ FF rating holds true the two vehicles are identical in stats except for their weapons (which I have shown to be effectively equal) and their speed. ?Since the two vehicles have the same points cost it stands to reason that the Vindicator should get a speed increase from 20cm to 30cm. ?That should be sufficient to make the Vindicator worth its points.
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I shot a Deathstrike Missile and destroyed an enemy titan in my pajamas last night. ?How it got into my pajamas I still don't know...
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