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EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]

 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:55 pm 
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NOV TOTAL got polished into 1.6
At my new home and lifestyle (farm life :)) I can only work from an, old machine in the village. This scrumbled up the print friendly edit again.Everything is there, but sadly they will need manual edit if someone wishes to print them.

When I get back to my computer at familiy, in city, I can redo the edit. That is probably at xmas, but don't know if I'll have the time.

Apart from that, you get a tested rulebook, army list, unit stats, game summary of 6 years development of stand alone Epic E:A extension -> Alight.

Missing update! (will take time until getting back to machine) : Storm Trooper formation cost from 225 to 175
Storm Trooper close combat from 4+ to 5+
Storm Trooper hot-shot lasgun from AP6+/AT6+ to AP5+/AT5+

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:52 pm 
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Through the years Epic Alight went through many changes, switchbacks until it reached it's current form. With version 1.6 NOV TOTAL the game meta from test battle experience looks like the following:
1. It is free to create almost any size and unit compositioned formation. Activation is important, so it may be good to have singles. Due to havoc rule (1 blast for 6 shots), and small size, single formations are mostly ineffective in combat. (it is intended!) Two formations merged (dual) are the real combat formations that can make some damage / blast, and bear them for a degree. Three formations merged (trio) receives CAB, which makes them viable option, and also the main battle force each. Packing up more formations will mean less activation, and that could be a disadvantage. (it's still an assumption)
2. Range is king. With overwatch gaining move or +1 to shoot (if not moved) and boundless garrison, these things became important assets of the meta.
3. Split fire is in the game, however it is still valid to focus fire. Usually splits are used by main battle forces, combat formations to eliminate smaller targets or to utilize AP, AT firepowers.
4. Hide and concealed advance is a fine addition, yet not that powerful, especially since aerial recon is introduced!
5. Air game really went on steroids. They got upgunned, and also get the flexibility to merge / split during battle!
Air transportation also got their power up with the ability zo free bring, pick up any formation and still disengage!
6. On the other hand, ground anti air, and even CAP, dogfihts are made more stable, and hard or even impossible to evade. Currently aircraft can strike anywhere, making a real punch, but a solid AA bubble can push them back with blasts and some lucky kills here and there. And aircaft can't capture or contest. Only ground forces can!
7. In assault both CC and FF is viable, the FF domination is successfully reduced.
8. The 50 cm no enemy bonus in Rally made true retreating mosty the best option when breaking.
9. Victory Condition cut back to objective capturing only, brought back manouvre to the game. (since the many changes that upgunned everything)
10. War Engines life were made better by the ability to hold more blast marker, and the removal of criticals.
11. Logistic Points works well. It is good to have 10+ in normal battles (4-5000 army point). They allow to come back from a broken, losing battle, reducing the snowball effect!
12. CSB adds enough characters to grease the command structure. It is good option to have 1-2 inspiring or faction special CH.
13. Spacecraft is big mystery. Sometimes it is very powerful, but whenever scatter rolled too high, it could have terrible result. They definietly have a very high impact to the game.
14. Beacuse of this, orbital defense towers are considered a solid blitzguard (ranged ones). I can see that new / casual players may agree to completely disallow spacecraft intervention and orbital defense from their game!
15. SM / CSM got reverted, as they were too powerful with double hp, double attacks. Now as with original, only blast marker holding is doubled.
16. Though Action Test failure is less restrictive, it is still important to activate well. IMHO the original game were too much, as it prevented initiative retaining, and many key orders to play out! This was the very first thing I have changed when started converting the rules and it works excellent since! :)
17. Rally is a bit more important hence all the buffs to increase the chanches!
18. Dangerous and difficult terrain, and minefields are a thing!
19. Ground reinforcements, off board arty / AA are there. So far the most use were from skimmers as they can't start hidden in deployment zone, and are usually fast enough to arrive good, from table longedge.
20. Opting for 1D6 via CH-s taking dire actions in assault is fun! :)

Enjoy!

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:50 pm 
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Update to new version 1.7 [DECIMATOR]

First of all, I (think) figured out a way to fix print friendly edition. Apoligies for inconvenience!

The major hit of this update highly affects Towering War Engines a.k.a Titans! They got upgunned, got more damage capacity, and more!
Also the Titan weapons works different on different machines! Like Super-Heavy can barely hold them, and focus only to fire them at least!
Loaded on Titans they automatically get the range bonus from shooting a lot higher! Assault Titan weapons also adds bonus to firefight which is only applied if it is a Titan who bears them!
Assault Titan weapon is more effective on a Battle Titan as it has more power capacity to better utilize it's capabilites!
Titan cost overall has been touched aswell. Mainly lowered beacuse of three reasons:
Recent updates introduced differentation in Logistic Points, which also got more expensive (from 5 to 10). That together made Titans more expensive overall!
Weapon Damage rule is a thing. If that penalty is reached, the Titan becomes less intimidate. It could be enough for armies to (repel a Titan) pack up firepower just do that and leave it be.
Third, which also relates to recent updates: Titans movement speed got reduced overall.
These changes conlcudes to the vision that Titans are mainly gigantic guntowers, possessing long range and unmatchable firepower. Though their armour are the thickest (in most cases), their numbers counted in DC's are still few and easily outmanouvred.
Eager to see how these will play out!

Core rule has also been changed! And that is Victory Conditions! NOV TOTAL already deleted Break Their Spirit, Cut Off as these two made the game focus more (and actually win) on fighting, rather than capturing.
Remaining with only 4 Victory Conditions, I realized how were they connected, to be precise, how They Shall Not Pass (converted to objective based goal) works with Defend the Flag. These made the game a bit uniplanar. To solve that, came up with the idea; severing the close ties with the two defensive Victory Condition so that all four can be done seperately, leading to different combinations to accomplish victory.

Instead of being a Victory Condition, the fighting missions are still there as denials: eliminating the opponents commander, reducing their Supply (eventually cutting off!), or just pushing out the key formations that are residing upon objectives. It is up to the player, but fighting alone will get nowhere, while leading a successful assault or holding out at key position are the real deal, check-matte of the game!

Enjoy 40k! Enjoy Epic Alight! All yours to conquer!
Any feedback, opinion are welcome!

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:32 pm 
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Version [Decimator] updated into 1.8.
I kept the codename as only a single part of the game got touched. Spacecraft. Reworked their rules, and adjusted their Discipline values, leading into a generic 3+ and 4+ for Chaos Armies.

Spacecraft cannot be prolonged or repelled or pass a turn. They are too big for that. This means they surely activate at 7+. This makes the SC part of the game more simple. The riskiness of it was done via earlier revisions that changed the scatter values higher, making it really volatile on failed activation. (they can do friendly fire!)

Selectable Actions are already introduced with 1.7 Decimator, and just got more look into. (and finalized perhaps) Added Counter Operation, which simply is a penalty for opponent's SC Action Test.

And that's all.
Plan well and roll good!

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:33 pm 
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Small patchup for version [DECIMATOR]. In this patch (1.9) D10 are used for Spacecraft scatter. Also got fixed the wordings for SC: activation, passing, summary chart and counter operation.

Also characters got a deeper look into, and though the change in 1.9 is very small, I take this opportunity to write about the whole concept behind them all along.
In Epic Alight Characters are boons to the army, starting with commanding officers on the field, supported by inspiring, psyker or some other special ones. Though every CH add CC and / or FF attacks to their units, and personal invu saves, their primary role and function comes from their abilites, instead of a raw combat power upgrade.
This is further reinforced when we add experience points to the game.
***[Generally playtesting shows, that newcomers are already struggling with all the new stuff, so I usually just skip exp part of the game, and leave it to regular players or tournament, campaign games.]***
Basically exp is zero, since CH are already a good bonus on their own. XP just makes them more powerful and is there to reward risking the CH. The more it advances on the battlefield, the more closer it gets to enemy (attacking in assault), or taking a hit anytime, are all the things that normally players try to avoid! In avoiding, we can also mean putting the CH into powerful units, war engines! That is why the "life threatening" part is included for experience gaining for receiveing a hit! This means a mathematical chanche for the CH's unit to be destroyed in that encounter!
Since War Engines don't have Criticals anymore, receiveing less hit than their ACTUAL DC, is not life threatening, as it is 100% they gona survive that blow!

Now that XP is gained, their spending introduces player decision based boosting system to the game, which became popular in nowadays tabletops.
For combat; experience points only allow to re-roll that single attack or invu save, so even a very strong CH with 10+ exp, just make a highly probable single blow with better survival yet alone won't be able to overpower an entire formation!
But when it comes to their abilites, they weigh more and with some experience points turn the tide of battle, by better activating, rallying troops, detecting hidden enemy or pumping out an assault resolution!
This way players at least get a path to include strong characters to their game, or level them up through a campaign!
According to army points, currently there is only a one-time 5 point option to give 1 xp for one CH in a standard game.
Currently I don't see proper way to include prices for more, as some ability strengthtening here and there can rapidly slip the game into Herohammer, which would be welcome for an extremely huge once in a life 20 turns showdown, but is out of scale for the usual Epic Alight combined arms vision.
Just take that in mind when experimenting. :)

And that is all for this year. Get ready for the next!
Enjoy battle, enjoy 40k and Happy New Year!

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:13 pm 
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Salute!
Epic Alight 2.0 have arrived and ready for insertion!

CORE RULE CHANGES

-deteroriated the Discipline value by 1 for every faction!!!
-Action and Rally Test allows for 7+ and automatic failure beginsfrom 10+!!
[side note: i missed to change it in the rulebook, but it is changed in the summary!] [i`ll edit when fixed that!]
-added 20 cm aura range to executive, psychic shield
-commander ability changed to give re-roll instead of +1D6.
-removed turn ending pass and added Hold Position Order instead.
-renamed Rest Order to Rearm.
-clarified that characters adopt the unit's base wargear. For example first strike, ignore cover, macro, titankiller. Since it is base wargear, the additional weapons (for example titans) does not count.
-characters 1 exp combat re-roll can be used for a single armour save of a life threatening hit. (earlier only personal invu saves couls be re-rolled)
-Command Staff Bonus gained two more option for residual or unused opportunities. For every 500 point gain 1 Logistic Point. For every 1000 point one CH gain 1 xp.
-clarified that scenario, terrain theme, army lists, army points must be agreed and known before battle.

TAU EMPIRE
-fixed the guided missile change from earlier patches
-broadside 2x medium cn switched to 1x AT cn.
-pathfinder move changed back from 16 to 15 cm.

TYRANID
-spinegaunt weapon range increased from 15 to 20 cm.
-barbed trygon weapon became long trap, upping the range from 30 to 40 cm.

NECRON
-removed lychguard and lych destroyer
-added necron flayer warrior, and flay destroyer.
-removed teleport from pylon, and sentry pylon.
-changed armour of Immortal from 4+:6+ to 3+
-changed armour of immortal hoplon from 4+:5+ to 2+
-wraith gained first strike on it's firefight attack.
-created fixed mounted ability for destroyer type units.
-quick withdraw army strategy allows teleport to reserve at the end of action, instead of point of breaking!

DARK ELDAR
-blink army strategy changed and renamed to speed is armour: giving +2 to Action Test for Orders with 2 or 3 moves, for DE only.

ELDAR
-blink army strategy changed to +1 to Action Test for non-combat orders.
-rangers: they gain +1 to Action Test for all Ground Orders on their own. (not Rally!)

IMPERIAL GUARD
-storm troopers: they gain +1 to Action Test for all Ground Orders on their own. (not Rally!)
-storm trooper formation cost increased from 175 to 185

The activation succes rate were slightly overclocked, while failure became less punishing. My problem was actually the latter, so making the success rate a bit worse may bring back more gritty excitement to activations, and also making characterst (hence the aura range buffs, and army buffs to action tests) logistics, larger airfield more impactful, required to run the army smooth.

Stay tuned for Rally Test edit in rulebook. I will sign that with my usual first post edit also! ;)

2022.01.26. EDIT: Rulebook got fixed. Go go go! :)

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:18 pm 
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Slight update for version 2.0 Chaos powers.

Khorne formations are allowed to attack each other (friendly fire!) to utilise the favour of their deity! And is closer to the fluff, since it usual to have bloody rivalry within Chaos Factions!

I have found out that Nurgle power does not interact with aircraft, therefore added the ability to remove blast marker for rot marker (1:1) before Action Test! [which also means the usable rots will be halved in the previous turn End Phase.]

And that's all for 2.01.
Everything else remain untouched.

If any question arises, suggestions, ideas etc. they are all welcome!

EDIT: for new players. Download link, and comparison overview between Epic Alight and Epic Armageddon is in the first post (that was and is constantly updated) of this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:55 pm 
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-summary chart were missing the WE close combat reach (15 cm) rule. Now it got fixed, this is the only change in 2.02.

I take this opportunity to talk about assault conception in Epic Alight.
First of all, I wanted to make close combat more viable in any circumstance (charge, counter-charge, slow units, against pop up skimmer matchup etc.). The rules behind it, giving range to CC and increasing counter-charge movement proved to be sufficient. The above fix also shows that some WE could be so slow that it requires farther reach (as they are usually taller) and with it can use it's CC effectively.
For firefight, it kept it's potential as there will be plenty room within the 15 cm assault radius for a second line of units to shoot. This can become very intense when opposing sides are using both (FF vs CC) at one another, since CC can only be forced in BtB, that remained original!

Another aspect of assaults are movement. In the original, though it intended to keep assaults in a single pool, yet the way charge move and more over counter-charge move work, the restrictions could lead into abusive tactics in certain matchups, that resulted in some formations underperforming than their normal capabilities.
In Alight I solved this with large territory of freedom to move anywhere, while the barriers the attacker set, are maintanied!
Base contact holds, potential close combat can't leave 5 cm, and potential firefight can't leave 15 cm.
In the tests it proved to be more flexible, interesting, and a tool in the players hand to reposition their troops, thus have more control over the battle!

When it comes down to rolling dice, some additions were made to spice them up, giving more dimensions to army build metas.
Characters heroicly interfere in the assault resolution, mounted and pioneer units getting the advantage of flanking, 20 cm fire support from certain units and first strike integrated ('to fire' support first) bonus attack for base contact (tyranid, and some necron), etc.

As the combat rolls are finished, the resolution can change the tide of battle. Basically it is a bell curve roll, to make scatter more predictable, making grey-background formations doing as expected. But when it comes to heroic upside-down clashes,... it is also an option... :)
In tie result I eliminated the second round of combat. It were rarely happening and made casualties terrible for both sides, and just prolonged, complicated the assault procedure. An engagement is already devastating with certain break for loser, it is unfun, and unnecesseary to make it more punishing.
And it is more easier, understandable tactical advantage to have a defender victory in case of a tie, and the attacker just making a fall back without further losses.
If someone wishes a gritty chanche to catastrophic result, it is still in the game, just keep rolling failed armour saves!

So all in all, the Epic Armageddon assault system definietly got some extensions and refreshment, and is still resembling the original design as a major, risky but game deciding part!

What is your opinion about it? Have you tried?
Eager to hear how others fare with it! :)

Salute!

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:20 pm 
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you've been busy!

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:32 pm 
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A key tactical rule update in version 2.10! The hiding system.
Previously, hiding were used mainly as a defensive layer next to other methods, and effective against artillery, aircraft or long range shooting.
Against direct firing mid to short range it was too slow with a single move, therefore offensive capability of this rule was almost null.
In this update (this is the only change!) if a formation were already hidden when receiveing concealment order, it is allowed to do 2 moves instead of 1!
This boost also gives some more benefit for standard deployment when comparing to ground reinforcements or garrison. Although infiltrators may get very dangerous, so it may happen with more testing to cut back the "hidden" start and only getting "re-hide" at turn ends. But currently they seem fine, so ability rules stay as is.

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:57 am 
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2.11
-Small rule clarification regarding to Pin-Point Strike (Spacecraft) targeting TWE, overriding the pre-planned coordinate. This is the only thing touched.
When the activation is successful, the player can opt to target an enemy Towering War Engine unit, and skips scatter roll!
Upon failed activation the target selection can still be made, but the player must roll scatter, with the penalties! (If lucky and the scatter is small enough to stay on the base of the TWE, it hits!)

The Space-game in Epic Alight looks like the following:
-All factions can use the same SC options with similar powers and point cost. (bombardment, pin-point strike, planetfall, counter-operation)
-The only difference currently is the type of units benefiting planetfall. Every faction has units capable to planetfall, but there are huge differences in what types!
-Point-wise it is advantegous to have some sort of orbital support, which can be devastating to be brought multiple turns.
The bombards strike on larger territory, than the blast template. If anything scatters off-board, it still remains in the game, so the player don't lose automatically.
This means, spacecraft has more weighted role in Epic battles. It also serves a bit of mystery as their pre-planned coordinates can scatter more wildly compared to Armageddon.
-Added ability to defend / counter against SC. Both orbital defense structures, and counter-operating spacecraft deteriorates the opponents SC activation leading to catasthropically scatter those shots & drops.
Passively the Ground Reinforcements rule can also help to evade 1st turn bombardments!
For later turns, Reaction Orders are still there to lessen the punch received.
-This way both side of the coin are strenghted. The one with the SC can feel really powerful and dominating, while the other one can effectively resist, elude the big punches and come out good.

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:46 pm 
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Since Epic Alight already went on a different route, regarding the lore, I decided to shed some light on some possible extensions that may or may not happen in the future, but are in my pocket and would be interesting creativity challenge to work on it.
Currently these are off scale, as the primary goal is to balance out the existing version, finding every nuances to complete the game as much as possible. Any help, response, testing, approvement, tournament are welcome, as the more it is tried, the better it will become. (advantage of active development are yours :) )

But now the following will be about the ideas beyond the current level, I'm writing about it as a very long term future conception.

--Experimenting formation attachment, detachment during battle. Back at Nov Total version updates; air formations did receive this and works quite well, but ground formations are bit different story.
--Experimenting with limitless initiative retains, as there is always the option to steal initiative.
--Adding a lot of sub-factions via new units, army strategies, under some conditions or penalties: the focus to have more specialist, interesting set-up than the usual generalist army lists.
Only this would be a tremendeous amount of work.
--Mission cards before battle (draw some, select 1 or 2) that are open info and requires every kind of actions and circumstances that are outside of the usual end game objective grabbing to complete them. In return, they would grant experience points (for characters completing it), logistic points, end game score (tie breaker), mid game army strategy. All these as additions, next to the main battle!
--Formations with different agenda. While introducing specialist sub-factions, like an inquisitor for Imperial Gaurd, Mechanicus for Space Marine, a freebooter ork for greenskins, harlequin for Eldar etc. some of these may be part of the battle, but would be unable to capture / contest, and on failed activation they would be going to their own predesignated way, or tries to complete a mission card, for example reach enemy table edge and leave the battlefield, attack enemy strongest formation and capture it's leader, go for closest objective and teleport out when reaching it, go to closest building to enemy blitzkrieg; save the captives there and call for an aerial evac, and many many more.
--New main faction: Squat Republic. They would be a ratfaced-four armed-monkeylike small but cunning race. The previously removed units like Ogryns, Ratlings from IG, Attack Bike (without SM) from SM, and Pariahs from Necrons, and Vespids from Tau Empire, oldschool Epic units and some other dumped stuff would reappear find home in the Republic. Technologically they would be a crowd army with some modern era human tech, subterrain dwarflike mining stuff , stolen or traded alien artifacts from other beings, and finally a secret string from Necron Pariahs, that are half machine, half flesh, a bit more free and diplomatic and less deathmetal.
--Chaos Squats would also debut...
--Lords of War concept: adding high powered titan-like units that are mainly melee and army buffing instead of big guns. Also a complete re-design of greater daemons.
Factions would get the following:
IG -> Living Saint
SM -> Grey Knights (normal Marine units but with counter ability against LoW)
Ork -> Squiggoth
Eldar -> Avatar
Dark Eldar -> an Archon rising to super-saiyan level...
Necron -> C'tans
Tyranid -> Mysterious and extremly intelligent and powerful psychich Laeran lifeform (naga-like creature covered in clouds like "Archons in Starcraft")
Tau Empire -> Super Artifical-Intelligence radar flyer unit that buffs shooting, like reallife A.W.A.C.S.
Squat Republic -> C'tans
Forces of Chaos -> Daemons back and forth...

Now... that would be really Epic to get all these done and ready on the table...

Salute!

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 8:45 pm 
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A bigger update to version 2.20 = the hiding system reconstructed!

In the version 2.10 the hiding system were already revisited, and now all the experience gathered to finally take a better shape!
Bioling down in details:
-Hide is not exposed from movement
-Hide from now on is exposed from: [shooting, G2A, engage, fire support]. <- these latter were not clarified in previous versions. And march order (three moves)
-If the hidden formation made a move and got revealed, it can be shot at with Overwatch!
-Silent skimmer ability were missing from the rulebook and rule summary.
-Infiltrator loses the ability to start the battle hidden! They only give the turn-end hiding with infiltrator only formation (clarified), if standing in a position undetected.
-Removed the double move rule for Concealment, as the above made it obselete.

Since Overwatch Action gained movement (as a basic rule, as it was among the first rule extensions back in the day), it greatly enchanced the strenght of long range units. Now the 2.20 version of Epic Alight made hiding more useful for offensive manouvres allowing short range units to sneak past and gain first shot.
To counter (detect) hidden units were already worked out, and testing shows they are fine as is.
This way both sides of the coin are enpowered (the hidden and the detector) giving a fluent cat & mouse play to the game!
Another key part of this update is the cutting back of infiltrator! First of all, starting the battle hidden is conflicting with deployment bonus [starting the battle hidden]. I wanted to make deployment bonus unique.
Second, the infiltrator advantage made Dark Eldar overpowered. Without this bonus, they still very dangerous with fast flying light vehicles, as they are harder to detect compared to AV.

Enjoy!

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:04 am 
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In 2.21 the following have been changed
--minor corrections in rules summary
--Space Marines get new toys: Cyclone Interceptors, cheap drone aircraft to support their more expensive crafts
--Ork Speedfreak army strategy modified
--Tyranids gain Limbs Supremacy rule!

Marines needed some light support in the air. Ork Speedfreak rule gained more larger territory to be used, perhaps this way it will be more likely taken. For Tyranids, it is a fine touch to move through dense terrain a bit easier.

And also there is a secret present going on within the unit stat sheet, let's see if you can find it! ;D

Enjoy!

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 Post subject: Re: EPIC Fathomless Destruction [Fan made rule-extension]
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 288
Location: Hungary
A bigger update to 2.30
--Tau stealth suit cost changed from 165 -> 185
--Added formation merge limit [actually this came up while brainstorming about Campaign... ;) ]
--Updated the rules summary

And...
Introducing two new factions:

The Squat Republic, and Chaos Squats!!!

Enjoy! And explore! 8)


PS.: Updated the first post.

EDIT: Made some corrections, fixing typos. Marked it 2.31, but no rules have changed.

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***Action is our prayer. Victory is our offering.***


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