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Variable Armour

 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:57 pm 
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Well, it is easier to add a new spacial rule than to overhaul all the armour saves in the game.

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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:00 pm 
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@BL, I do not believe this necessitates a "complete armour review". At worst, I believe this might apply to 5-10 stats across all races. Also. while I understand what you are implying (the equivalent of an invulnerable save), variable RA is so much more. But it will take some time to do so if pushed, we could just add IS to the existing stats without any other fuss.

@MoscIf you are going to do this for any rules rewrite you might as well switch to 12 sided dice and keep the values of armor/RA the same since it is easier to keep track of rolls that are the same value.
I love it. That will throw the statisticians and us rules-lawyers into a complete spin!! Alternatively, you could always use percentage dice to make our lives much easier :p ?:p




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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:58 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 29 2008,14:20)
QUOTE
I would actually like to start using d10 or d12 based system.

I'd prefer it, too.

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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Adds more complexity into a game system which lives from simplifying battlefield situations. This works comletely against the game intention and so I have to disagree to this idea.

The idea behind this change is one of the reasons why new lists are so difficult to balance. Players want to add more detail instead of simplifying the 40k stats or fluff to a point useable in epic.

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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:10 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 29 2008,19:20)
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I would actually like to start using d10 or d12 based system. That's the one major flaw that the Epic has :).

Absolutely!  Ive always thought this is the biggest drawback to GW games...





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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:06 pm 
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I?m sorry to say this, but redoing the armour system is a bad idea. E:A shines because of its focus on maneuver instead of indiviudual units.

Complicating rules will slow the game down and will, in effect, add very little to gameplay. Results will differ marginally from what we have now, only to satisfy what I view as a misguided quest for more individuality/"accuracy" in certain stats.

It?s just not worth it, people.

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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:43 am 
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Sorry for necroing such an old topic. Even though I don't like bloating rules, I think it would be needed indeed, because currently, there is way too much difference between a RA3+, RA4+, and RA5+ armor, which results in RA3+ not being used at all, and a big gap between RA4+ and RA5+

the math is obvious, I just add it there for easy comparison
Chance of being destroyed by a non MW hit:
RA6: 69%
RA5: 44%
RA4: 25%
RA3: 11%
RA2:  3%

While if we were to allow 2 different values for RA:
RA 5/6: 56%
RA 4/5: 33%
RA 3/4: 17%
RA2/3: 6%

I don't think we need 2 separate values for RA (RA 2+/6+ would be meaningless, and would not help fine tuning the unit resilience much), as these values are enough to pad the gap between destruction chances. we'd just need a RA- ability, which would be the same as reinforced armor, but with the second roll using 1 less for the armor value (that is, 5+ instead of 4+).
In case something is hit by a macro weapon, the first roll would be used.

Thus it would allow us to finetune some units (land raider for instance, who could use RA 3-), without buffing or nerfing them too much.

this would give almost as much flexibility than using 12 sided dices for RA purpose, without reprinting any other stat than the ones we would modify.


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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:14 pm 
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If you follow the maths statistics, you will find the variable armour actually allows an increment of approximately 10% between each level, while also allowing the armour to emphasise different qualities. But, as I said musch earlier, it should only be applied as an exception rather than generally.

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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:49 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 29 Feb. 2008, 19:20 )

I would actually like to start using d10 or d12 based system. That's the one major flaw that the Epic has :).

That would be one of the advantages of SOW.


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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Quote: (Ginger @ 21 Mar. 2009, 11:14 )

If you follow the maths statistics, you will find the variable armour actually allows an increment of approximately 10% between each level, while also allowing the armour to emphasise different qualities. But, as I said musch earlier, it should only be applied as an exception rather than generally.

Indeed, I think it should exactly do that: allow us to fine tune a few units that are borderline too resilient or too weak, and leave most of the existing ones alone :)


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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:47 pm 
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You can create a special rule for those few units.  The Eldar did this with holofields (3+ then a 5+).  This allows you to customize certain armies or units without changing the game mechanics.

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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:26 pm 
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While I agree that a single special rule could be used, I am not sure how you would word it to allow the 'variable' nature of the armour.

IMHO this would really only require a 'Unit Note' to explain the nomenclature used, whether that be 4+/5+, 4-5, 4/5 etc. Something like: Additional Armour:- The unit has additional armour bolted on to cover vital areas which works in a similar manner to reinforced armour. The first figure represents the normal armour value, the second being the additional armour reroll which is the only save made against MW.


Part of the point here is that it would allow 5+/4+ values to represent 'siege' style armour which is more resistant to MW than 'Lance' weapons. While x+/6+ is apparently unnecessary, it is more representative than armour + invulnerable save, as IS can even save vs TK weapons.




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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Quote: (Moscovian @ 29 Feb. 2008, 15:28 )

If you are going to do this for any rules rewrite you might as well switch to 12 sided dice

I second my learned Babylonian colegue. The d12 is the king of game system dice.

And I find this thread after mentioning it elsewhere :) Anyway yes it might require something of a re-write, should have been included at the start (though I don't favour it being used to give out RA a lot, most stuff should remain no or 1 dice armour saves and sniper of course is very devestating).

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 Post subject: Variable Armour
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:41 pm 
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Quote: (Soren @ 29 Feb. 2008, 20:25 )

Adds more complexity into a game system which lives from simplifying battlefield situations.

Isn't it just a different way of writing up RA?


In fact the easist way to bring it in is changing RA to reinforced armour (x+), saves rewriting all the stats.

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