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The Vindicator

 Post subject: The Vindicator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:52 am 
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If MW is to powerful for the Vindicator, what about Lance?

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 Post subject: The Vindicator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:37 am 
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(BlackLegion @ Feb. 12 2008,23:52)
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If MW is to powerful for the Vindicator, what about Lance?

Leave the gun alone.

We know it's balanced for the Demolisher and the Baneblade, so let's just drop the points cost on the vindicators.


It's *that* simple.

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 Post subject: The Vindicator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:31 am 
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Hey in exchange i would remove Ignore Cover from Baneblades and LE Demolishers :D
But at least for the Vindicator Squadron Ignore Cover could be justifed because of the Apocalyspe special rule which enables Vindicators to remove terrain features. ;)
A Leman Russ Demolisher Squadron can't do this (there is a datasheet for a LR Demolisher Squadron included in the datasheed for the Tank Company. Here the Squadrons don't have the same special rules as the Vindicators)

So:
Vindicator Demolisher: 30cm AP3+/AT4+ Ignore Cover, Lance
Leman Russ/Baneblade Demolisher: 30cm AP3+/AT4+ Lance





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 Post subject: The Vindicator
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:50 am 
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I am with E&C and others who are talking cost. 75 ponts is a joke to pay for Vindicators, you add them to the formation it is then slowed, they dont last that long in my experiences with them. I have only ever fielded the formation once and it was a waste of time as it really didnt get into the fight until the last turn and has lost 50% of the formation to better ranged weapons. I think 50 is a far cost.

I would also like to add that I to think that this is applicable to Predator Destructor and the Hunter and argued the pinot last year and compared it to other AA systems within the game. Good to see some support of it again now. I also use in my Blood Ravens list a similar Support Tank choice.

Original post on Hunters

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 Post subject: The Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 am 
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Vindicator is a good tank... but not for 75pts!

I agree with E&C. Leave the stats alone and charge the appropriate price for it - 50pts. It is that easy.

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 Post subject: The Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:47 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 12 2008,23:37)
QUOTE

(BlackLegion @ Feb. 12 2008,23:52)
QUOTE
If MW is to powerful for the Vindicator, what about Lance?

Leave the gun alone.

We know it's balanced for the Demolisher and the Baneblade, so let's just drop the points cost on the vindicators.


It's *that* simple.

I disagree, Baneblade is a junk tank compared to a shadowsword in general terms of usefulness - even against non-WE armies with RA it is better. Just look at tourni lists and you'll see heaps of shadowswords and very few baneblades, (or for that matter demolishers).

Baneblade has short range guns and is slow as hell. Easy to dance around. If you actually manage to shoot something with it, it's guns are peashooters.  In contrast a Shadowsword company guarantees you will nuke things every turn at massive ranges, AND they are death to WE.  Baneblades should have a niche where they are very powerful at close range, but they won't with these sort of proposals.

As has been said 4 vindis for 200? They are a nothing unit and there are better options.

MW = 2 light targets or 1 heavy target dead for a squadron of vindicators. This is certainly not too powerful, if it does less than that don't expect to see them on the table.  
There is a fundamental problem with the firepower of these demolisher units and if people don't want to address that I guess they will just stay sitting on the shelf.

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 Post subject: The Vindicator
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:33 am 
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The Baneblade is better if you use the upgunned stats, though admittedly still not as good as the Shadowsword.

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 Post subject: The Vindicator
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:50 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Feb. 16 2008,09:33)
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The Baneblade is better if you use the upgunned stats, though admittedly still not as good as the Shadowsword.

I kinda agree.

A true gun Baneblade is a real killer.

If you ever get a formation of them within 30cm of a mixed Inf AV formation they can be brutal.

True you will never get the kill it really dead that the Shadowsword gets, but with some reasonable rolling, you can place a fair few BM on a formation, which the shadowswords can't.

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