whatever resin Hawk wargames use is fantastic stuff..... strong, with flexibility and the ability to capture much finer detail than metal, also the larger models (like the big PHR six legged scorpion walker thingy) get quite weighty and feel nicely substantial to hold

with planetfall, I'm keen to try it out and see if it packs the same amount of fun as epic does, from the spartan forum, it seems most people are into their 'helix' (which are actually hexes... ) based force construction system fiddliness rather than the game rules (which to be fair aren't on general release yet) and it's almost definitely based on the FA/DW exploding dice and range bands system

having said that, the models are gorgeous looking, and as long as the rules are reasonably fun and not a dogs dinner (which appears to be the case from the popularity of FA) then it will be a welcome addition to the raft of tabletop wargames available IMO

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Easy enough to Epic-fy them I suppose

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I'm certainly planning to get a copy of the PF rule book and do some proxying to test them out. Shame they have decided to go so large with their scale, otherwise they'd be great for proxies in epic - unfortunately even the medium tanks sound like they will dwarf FW super heavies :-(

I play Firestorm with a few friends (friends that persistently resist me trying to get them to play Epic) and from all I know, yeah - PF has the usual exploding d6s/range band mechanics. I tried to pick the brains of a few testers I know, but they've been stubbornly tight-lipped about the details. Humbug!

If it plays similarly to FA, then it'll be a reasonably rules-tight game that's fun and (usually) balanced, but the models will be too big to usefully align to each other in close quarters and a fair number of their models will have production issues that require sending back to get replacements. Or perhaps that's just the HUGE BUT PRETTY space ships they do.

On scale - yeah, not only is it 10mm in scale, but Spartan like to "overscale" everything. More detail, sure, but just too big so, as Blip says, they will be enormously out of scale to most Epic stuff. I'll probably end up using the epic minis I have as Planetfall proxy armies, just so they see regular games.

I don't mind the range scale mechanic - from what I see of DW that's actually quite neat meaning you get a variation of effective ranges including some units that have to stay at range. There also appears to be a "firefight" like mechanic planned for PF. However from the DW games I've seen its the relative slowness of the units vs the long range that just turns it into line up and shoot - perhaps in scifi/land version units will be faster?

Exploding 6s (especially stacking 6s) just feels wrong to me - great for crazy carnage in dreadball, but not in a tactical game.

One thing I find a little ... ah ... let's say minorly annoying ... Some are so wedded to the idea of all the factions in the Epic 40K Universe/fluff. With all the great other 6mm Sci-fi models out there why only stick to GW models, etc. ? I know about rule concerns ... It's a BIG Galaxy and even BIGGER Universe. For some examples : EW Terragin, and CinC Raptors fielded using ORK rules. CinC Felids also as Orks. Also I've even thought DRM Krays with their higher tech could use Eldar rules. Or GZG KraVak as Ork. The obvious fit is DRM Andy, EW Edenites and CinC 'bots as Necron. Even some of the DRM Andys could work for Eldar. As well as Onslaught and TMG mini uses are clear. Don't forget EW Khazari, pretty clear also. All the various human 6mm types from all the 6mm Sci-fi available [ DRM, EW, CinC, GZG, Microworld, Angle Barracks, Dartest Star, etc.] could fit in for various IG or even SMs in some cases. DRM, EW CinC, Microwrold, GZG, Angel Barracks, Darkest Star and others all have vehicles that could work for IG or Eldar, etc. ... DRM Skyth as 'Nids ... CinC has a number of aliens that could work using as Ork, Eldar, maybe even Cultists. In some cases, like HA-LU-KI sevant troops. As well as all the various CinC, Microworld, Darkest Star, GZG aliens could be Tau Allies. Off the top of my head ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

I think everyone knows all this, and most if not all use alternative minis in their armies. I have large collections of most of the above, as seen in the gallery section, and the ToEG14 section. Have a look L4, everyone uses them...we get it

You say you find it annoying that others like to use GW models? Why? Surely it makes no difference to you if they do.

Anyway, that wasnt the point of this thread.

The simple question I asked was, If GW made epic, what would you like to see? Unfortunately it seems I have unwittingly given people an excuse to turn it into another GW hater thread. Fair enough, I dont like them either, I havent bought a model of theirs for over a decade, except epic on ebay.

Having said all that, I would still buy a re-released epic

Steve

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Glad, more peeple get that there are options. But I've run into guys that have drank the GW Kool Aid and been possessed by the GW Fanboy Deamon and think me a heretic ! You miss the point, about being annoyed ... I'm annoyed by those who I lead to the buffet but only eat the kale and ignore the rest ... and get annoyed with me for pointing it out ... get it ? For me I really don't think I'd like anything ... I've been doing Epic since '90 and have all their armies and most of their models. For me I like some of the newer models that other companies have brought out, humans and aliens ... But that may just be me ... So as I always say - Do what works for you ... not me ... So maybe I'm on the wrong thread and just sign off ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

L4,

You have misunderstood what I was trying to say. Im not annoyed with you, not in the slightest. If it came across that way then I apologise. I was merely trying to get the thread back on topic.

As for GW, we are in agreement, all the other stuff available, we are in agreement also. But I still dont get why you would be annoyed, or upset. I am no GW fanboy, and I have been playing and collecting epic since 1990, and AM before that.

My thread was meant to be a light hearted one, to discuss what we would like to see in a future edition of the epic rules, or a box set, but it has been derailed somewhat. I wish I had never started it in the first place. After all its never going to happen.

I refuse to fall out with you, or argue over the internet like children, we are talking about toy soldiers after all.

Please accept my apologies if I have upset you. Not my intention.

Steve

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Little legions, my blog http://stevenkelly1.blogspot.com/

No sweat ... no need for apologies ... no harm ... no foul ... My tone may have sounded/came across more annoyed, angry, etc. then it was. As I was not either of any of those terms ... It's all good ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."