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Ok this thread makes me grumpy.
there are in 2 posts, already 3 examples of things that ruin the hobby for other people.
First, the phrase "Barbie Scale"
you know whats awesome about the wargaming community?
how derisive and condescending people are about games they dont play. it makes for a nice and inclusive community that doesnt exclude outsiders and would-be-new-members and noone looks like an asshole or anything.
seriously, outside of politics, wargamers as a group are the most inhospitable divisionist people I know, and that includes religion.
You don't like 40k? thats fine. plenty of people do, acting superior to them creates a toxic atmosphere that devolves into cliquism and elitist wankery. Yes, the not very subtle jabs at the "outsiders" of this forum may help reinforce your position as "one of the pack" but it's at the expense of others, so dont do it. there's also overtones of sexism "barbies are a girls toy, real men play 6mm scale toy soldiers" and of course, the fact that the scale that most represents "barbie" as it were would be 54mm. a more accurate insult would be "army men scale" because 28mm is much closer to those plastic soldiers that kids play with. Inquisitor figures are more likely to fit in with Barbie than 40k ones would, but of course, playing with toy soldiers is considered a proper pursuit for little boys, and thus, is not a threat to their masculinity.
Secondly, and thirdly, because they sort of tie together a lot in the rant below, now we've actually made it onto the link itself: Internet Heroism and Winning The Game vs Playing The Game
Here we have a guy we've been told to hate, he's a powergamer after all. so we obviously cheer when the other guy beats him at his own game.
Except here's the thing: Kossaro Khan, the white scars character from the codex when that photo was taken provides the rule Outflank, to his army. If the player had this character, he would be able to assault from the sides. But, Khan is often considered an unsporting choice (attacking from the sides allows you a much greater degree of table penetration, and generally a khan list will score lower on the comp score chart than one without)
So, on one side of the table we have a guy who has taken a themed army, with what many would consider a concession. it's a pure bike list. i've played with and against them, and they have some strengths and weaknesses, they're hardly the be all of top tier wargamer lists, and never have been. without khan, thats a fairly midrange looking list, especially without support speeders, and what appears to be no techmarine on a bike either.
I am not convinced this guy is a power gamer.
Now lets look at the other guy. He's got a tau list, a list well known for its significant firepower and range. He's playing against a small sized army that is particularly vulnerable to firepower of the type tau provide. His deployment zone is also quite sparsely populated with terrain that would provide cover. in fact, depending on how people play those hills, he may have basically none at all (and a note, most tau players i've come up against in 40k would do their damndest to argue that those hills are "representative" and should not actually provide cover)
when faced with a solid gunline and no cover, the reasonable response is to deploy off the table and come on via reserves. at this point, "wheels" is probably really wishing he had Khan, since it would allow him to hit the sides, where there's a better chance of terrain intervening, and allowing him to isolate a portion of the enemy army so that his highly mobile, but still quite limited, firepower can be brought to bear.
So, we have one guy who we know is a powergamer because, despite his list hardly being top tier (if you want an example of a much scarier list that is able to operate on the same principles this bike list is accused of using, try the valkyrie mounted "leafblower" list which i have personally seen remove 60% of a marine army before the marine army gets a turn. but even that isnt a "be in reserve" move. thats a "infiltrate and scout" move (which is what the tau player did, not the bike player) being in reserve is not a great option in most instances, because you do not arrive all at once (the IG list has things that assist with that problem too, btw, but the marine list does not)
so this "power gamer" is doing the reasonable thing when faced with his opponents army and the table.
another thing worth noting aboit "power gamers" is that they generally know their rules quite well. they know the exploits, and they use them to their advantage whereever possible. they take advantage of any weird little interpretation, and try to come up with tricks to crush their opponents.
So, lets look at the picture again, only without the captions.
We have a guy with a themed list, who forced into an unpleasant position by the table and his opponents list, now finds himself completely unable to even have a game. he is looking through the rulebook, trying to find out why he's lost before the game has really begun. he doesnt look angry, though he doesnt look pleased either. He's taken his army to a tournament, and now he doesnt get to play (not to mention, if he had any hopes of placing in the top part of the tourney those are now over)
and the other guy, has a self satisfied smug grin on his face. he's won, his opponent never saw it coming, and he used a cunning trick, and a small rule to defeat his opponent without even having to fire a shot. He's very pleased with himself.
Of those two, who seems like the power gamer? the one who lost, or the one who won because of a cheap trick, and denied his opponent any chance of an actual game.
primarch: i had a similar situation in a game of apocalypse. my army consisted of one spotter model, and 86 orbital lance bombardments. It was fun and silly, but my opponents did not think it was as fun as I did. we never actually played the game, because what would be the point. of course, a game of apocalypse is never remotely serious to begin with, and is all in good fun amongst friends. if i went to a tournament and had to play an army like that it'd probably put me off wargaming to, it would certainly make me hesitant to ever play that person again, in friendly situations or otherwise.
People come to tournaments to play games. Some people come because they want to win, to see their enemies driven before them and hear the lamentation of their women, but most people go because they want to play games. tournaments cost money, and when someone denies their opponents any sort of game, they've basically ruined their opponents fun.
Coming online, and strutting your stuff about how cool it was that you beat some fellows bike list because the guy didnt realise he'd made a simple mistake, or about how you destroyed an entire tournament without even really playing a game, may make you look tough and clever, but it also makes you look like a jerk. I've had games like that. If they'd been my first games, I wouldnt be here right now.
A dude I know has a saying, the objective of the game is to win, the point behind the game is to have fun, do not confuse the two.
Winning is fun, but be aware of your opponents feelings to. Don't build a list that will automatically win, if you see your opponent has forgotten to move his vital piece, let him know. It can be a difficult line to tread, and sometimes in the excitement of winning we dont take it into account like we should. But, if you win without having to roll dice, then that means your opponent has probably just lost without getting to roll dice, and thats not a good feeling.
This hobby only exists because of people. If you act like a jerk to people, if you insult their preferred system (or, say, the most prevalent scale in this branch of the hobby) if you puff yourself up and tell stories about how you totally ruined someones day, less people will want to join in. It doesnt look like a fun place to be, so the people who play for fun are less likely to come, and all you're left with is people who like to punch down.
be cool guys.
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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~
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I have played 40K since the old book came out ( though no more), and its just a bit of banter, as prevously mentioned. Honestly, I find it a bit strange that such a silly phrase can be taken seriously. Like many Old farts here, I loathe 40K tournaments and the petty attitudes I feel they tend to promote. To me, the hobby (not the trademarked one) was always a gentlemens pasttime, not a means of competing amongst peers.
