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Custom round bases experiment
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=12624		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Arne [ Fri May 16, 2008 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
Hi! I found my old epic stuff which I haven't touched much in the last decade. So, I started looking around the net to see what was the latest. Hmm, it seems Epic is no longer supported. Then I found NetEpic and this place.

Anyways. I soon started to experiment with custom bases for Epic. I'm not quite happy with any of the square bases, and it feels like 5 figures on a base is one too many.

Some people use pennies I hear (we'd probably use the old (decommissioned) 50 ?ring in Sweden), but coins are a bit too thin and I don't have any atm. I suppose I could buy pennies at the bank if it comes to that.

First I made some feel-good tests and came up with 20mm and 32mm diameters, 2mm thick, preferably with sloped sides. first I went to look for these flat rings (washers) used in construction, but found none appealing.




Then by chance I flipped over a regular 40k base, and it was exactly right for making a mold! Diameter, slope and thickness was all there. So I cleaned out the bottom and did some stuff (see pic below).



I'm still experimenting, so any ideas are welcome. I haven't really looked how other people are doing things like this. I also started experimenting with making greenstuff molds for my own greenstuff masters (which I'll use to cast more greenstuff stuff), but it might not be possible.

Back to the bases. The problem is what material to use. Greenstuff is too expensive and bothersome to knead. Regular clay might break. I couldn't get ovenbake clay to stick to the 'ground' when I pull up the mold.

It was easier with the air drying water based clay. I apply butter to the inside of the mold, press in some clay into it, then put a drop of water on the ground (a flat plastic thing). By pressing down and vibrating the excess clay pushes out. Kinda works, but this clay is probably way too brittle. I think I need to make the edge of the mold sharp on the outsides so the clay gets cut off properly, and some channels out might be a good idea.

Thoughts on this? Know of any good clay? Methods to get it out of the mold? I tried potato flour to no effect.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Fri May 16, 2008 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
I love the idea! Can see a lot of ways of taking it further too (making the infantry less symetrical, using the cavalry base for say terminaotrs, leaving an imprint for ruin sprues etc).

And yes, fire team wise 4 makes the most sense.
Author:  Arne [ Fri May 16, 2008 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
Yeah, a lot of stuff can be made with imprints.


Somewhat freaky, I found a film-jar lid in my bitsbox when I went to fetch a knife. It had sloped edges and the right depth, if padded with something (I did a sloppy greenstuff job).

I painted up one of my earlier failed bases (had to pull the clay out of the mold). It's a bit distorted and skew, thus, it will serve as a canarie. I'll do some drop-tests with it. Clay is not flexible like plastic so it might break.

It's even worse for the 32mm bases because they're thinner, relatively speaking. Maybe a paper can be glued onto the bottom or something.

Also, this clay is not water proof. The paint seems to apply just fine though, as did the wood glue on top of the paint.   I used universal glue for the figs as they won't just snap into the slots and superglue won't work with clay afaik.
Author:  Dave [ Fri May 16, 2008 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
I would suggest some type of casting resin that you can poor into the bases.

http://www.alumilite.com/products.cfm

Ask around, there are plenty of people on this forum that have cast their own stuff...

Chroma, Otterman, E&C, Reaver come to mind.
Author:  alansa [ Fri May 16, 2008 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
those are some really nicely painted minis btw :)
Author:  Arne [ Fri May 16, 2008 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
Thanks. Will check that out. This is a pretty fast process though, but I'm not sure how fast/easy resin is (until I've read that link).


Second batch.

Lessons learned:

The new sharp edge on the mold helped to make the excess clay separate easier. On the first batch the excess ring was pretty thick and I took it off after the clay had dried, breaking the edges badly. Maybe I can make the edge even sharper though. The excess ring is still not super-thin at some places.  If I can't get rid of it, then it's best to cut it off with a knife when the clay is still wet.

Before putting the clay into the mold, I shape it into a disc. However, if the clay is not wet enough it will crack at the edges. This happened with the first batch. Unfortunately those cracks persisted even when pressed into the mold. For the second batch I wet the clay a bit and that solved the problem.

I did a little channel cut in the mold but the excess still went out on all sides.

To press out the excess,  I... vibrate the hand rapidly while pressing. Not sure if there's a better way.

Sometimes the clay won't fill everywhere, so the disc which goes into the mold has to be shaped right and pressed into all nooks and crannies.

Q-tip for applying a thin layer of butter between each or every other 'cake'.

1st dry. Problem with the edges.



2nd, better edges.



Results from the droptest are in: Survived shoved off table onto floor (plastic carpet) multiple times. No figure fell off either (the universal glue is rather rubbery).

Also, dropping into water only affects the surface if unpainted (erodes it).
Author:  Arne [ Fri May 16, 2008 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
Bases from batch 1. Since the clay isn't waterproof it's possible to wet a finger and run around the base to smooth it up. Unfortunately most of the batch 1 bases had a pretty rough edge, but you can see one with a nice sharp edge. Maybe the second batch will look something like that. Also, when the acrylics go on the clay it might waterproof it.
Author:  widgren [ Fri May 16, 2008 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
that is a good idea ,arne! iv been thinking about casting custom bases too and this might be the inspiration needed to get off my deriere.

you could make a small indentation on the underside of the base to allow for magnets to be inserted:) ill have tha anyway.
Author:  Arne [ Sat May 17, 2008 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
Magnets? For storing stands on a strip? I don't think a magnet will fit into these because of the indented base slots, but a magnetic film or something on the bottom might work.


Experimenting on the failed first batch. I discovered that I could use a fine sandpaper on the sides (to get off the excess), then top and bottom.  It made the edges much sharper. Three of these are seen above, and as you can see they improved a bit.

These do not survive being thrown on concrete.

Working on some simple marines for testing.
Author:  widgren [ Sat May 17, 2008 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
i use magnets 1mm thick and 4mm across. they will fit in my bases:) its time for me to go from the talkie-stage to the doie-stage.
keep it up
Author:  Arne [ Sat May 17, 2008 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
These are just 2mm and the slots go down one, so a 1mm magnet might not work.


Here's the first 32mm base tests. Since these have no slots I can rotate them. I'm using Q-tip and liquid veg-oil now. From what I can tell the oil goes into the clay after a while. Doesn't cause any problems when painting anyways. One has to be careful when lifting up the mold. A few times I messed up the edge, but since the clay was soft I could put the mold on again and fix it.

Also if I know what unit I'm gonna place on the base I can terraform a bit while the clay is still soft. Maybe pressing the said unit into the clay a bit (to help gluing), or making tracks.



A LandRaider needs these bases, but for something like a pulsa rokkit (old model) I'd use my 20mm base instead. The Rhino though... not sure.

I'm using air-drying terracotta clay (hobby). It's somewhat heavy so I don't think there's paper in it... There's also paper clay which is really light. Maybe it would survive drops better.

---

Also, conversion on the way. An old toothbrush works well as grass (and it also makes a nice splatter airbrush for art stuff).
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat May 17, 2008 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
Just a thought ... I got an Alumilite casting kit at the craft store. My friends have been using them for years. I've cast my own Epic long bases, terrain bases, etc. ... It's much better than clay (which I've tried before). And once you have made a mold, you can re-use it virtually "forever". ?And you don't have to use butter or veg-oil ! :D ?And a tactical note - Fire Teams are usually 3-5 men, 2-3 Tms per squad. I'll stick with 5, since that's what we used in the US Army. :) ?And nice modeling work on those Epic pieces too.
Author:  Arne [ Sat May 17, 2008 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
I actually have some silicone stuff in my closet since a decade ago when "the 40k gang" wasn't scattered by the winds yet. I can't quite recall how it worked though, but it was 2 component and there's a Vaseline tube there too... I think it was used for separation.

Is it possible to cast master copies and make a sprue when doing resin casting? Casting one base at a time would suck.


Worked some more on the stuff. Lesson learned. Cut the guys off their base and glue them onto it after painting/flocking. I nearly ruined them with my brush so I went in and cut em loose. Not sure how well they're gonna stick with the superglue on the hooves now though. Next time I'll do it properly and leave some of the base so I get more glue surface.

Not much light left, and I didn't bother with a flash, so, mega curves in photoshop.






Re. Grass, I use residuum greenstuff to make little grass islands. The old toothbrush is kinda black-brown cuz I've used it as an airbrush. when painting the top of the grass green the bottom can be left dark-brown, it looks kind of natural.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat May 17, 2008 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
Great looking stuff Arne ! Yes, it is pretty easy to cast, especially one piece molds.  I made a rubber(from the kit) mold with 5 Epic Long bases. Mixed the 2 part resin(from the kit), pour it in the molds. 10 minutes later I had copies of the bases. I could have made a mold for 10 if I wanted. I'm probably going to the same thing for Warmaster bases ...  Who needs G/W ! :D  I'm sure if you go online, Alumilite has a site. And you can order a kit.  I can even pick one up at the craft store, mail it to you and you can PayPal me.   If you can't get it where you are.
Author:  Markconz [ Sun May 18, 2008 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Custom round bases experiment
The ingenuity of the Epic community never ceases to amaze me!

Great stuff Arne, and welcome to the forum. :)
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