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Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
Curis
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:33 pm 
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Hey everybody.  Long time lurker, first time poster.

I've been trying to round out my army with some classic tunnellers.  I snagged a pair of Moles on eBay, but I'm a bit disappointed with the quality.

First off, the larger surfaces are quite pitted.



Secondly, there's random blobs of metal that are part of the cast.  And look, what's going on with the texture here?



Thirdly, and most suspect of all, is the second mold line.



Now, I know these Epic models are from the 80s, when everything wasn't as crisp and beautiful and lead-free as it is today, so it could just be a product of the times.  But I suspect these are counterfeit.

First question is do you think they are?  You guys have a lot of experience with the classic old models.  Are these counterfeit, or just gnarlily old?

Second question is, what should I do?  Anybody had experience with nasty filthy bootleggers?

Thanks in advance.

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:32 pm 
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Isn't there a guy that regularly sells duped Hellbores and CIs on eBay? The trick is that the original tracks were plastic, but the ones sold on ebay are metal.

Of course, your mole isn't one of those two, but I would bet it is a dupe. The best confirmation is to periodically check for items being sold by this guy (or even check his comment history for recent auction lots) - if he "finds" more moles to sell, then he's probably recasting them.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:53 pm 
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FAKE.

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Curis
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:37 am 
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I've been going through his previous items, and no more Moles have appeared in the last 90 days (after that point eBay doesn't link to the auction any more).  However, there are a number of similarly rare, unpainted and badly photographed items that have cropped up:

Here
Here
Here
And here

Games Workshops' legal policy says:


What we suggest is that if you encounter a counterfeiter, get as much information as you can before you contact us: where you saw them, what was being sold, where they are being made, etc. If you can, buy a small representative sample (taking care not to overly handle them as you do not know what they may be made of) and, if possible, get a receipt. If the products are indeed counterfeit, we will reimburse you for any postage costs and will try our best to replace any counterfeit with the genuine article. E-mail us with any information at:...


Should I forward them onto Games Workshop?  They don't make Moles any more, so they can't replace them.  I'd rather get a refund from the seller and let him go unpunished than send them off to GW and be out of pocket.

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Enderel
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:47 am 
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Ah it's Pointyhead games, I've dealt with him a fair few times, I'll have a look at the models he's supplied when I get home.  I can't remember them looking suspicious though.

One thing I will say in his defence is he is a major Epic reseller and more than liekely he has bought these in a larger lot and is re selling them individually.  I know I've been out bid on a fair few items (large lots) by him and then seen them relisted in component parts a few weeks later.

Probably best to raise your suspicions with him directly and maybe he can offer you a replacement and or advice on where these have come from.

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Curis
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:21 pm 
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Well, I've contacted the seller with a friendly email.  If for some bizarre reason we can't resolve it amicably I'll contact GW.

The situation's a little bizarre because I've just finished reading Philip K. ****'s "The Man in the High Castle".  One of the characters resells 20th Century antiques like Mickey Mouse watches, and another expertly counterfeits them.  Yet again, Philip K. ****'s novels prove chillingly prophetic.  :p

Most disappointing I thought I'd finally snagged enough tunnellers to use in my games.  Aw well, the hunt resumes.  I'll be more cautious in future.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:28 pm 
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(Curis @ Apr. 02 2008,12:21)
QUOTE
Most disappointing I thought I'd finally snagged enough tunnellers to use in my games. ?Aw well, the hunt resumes. ?I'll be more cautious in future.

Er... once you've cleaned them up a bit and painted them... why can't you still use them?

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Curis
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:48 pm 
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Because they won't look as good as the real things.    It's a major hassle cleaning up the dirty mold lines, and then resculpting the detail on teh carrier.  The paint won't go on smoothly over the tunneller itself, and the detail can never look as crisp.

On top of that, it's a matter of principle.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:45 pm 
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I just went and got one of mine out of storage and took some pictures. ?I've had this model for over 15 years and, man, it looks like crap!

I think you got a real one there Curis because, essentially, all your "miscast" stuff is the same as mine; odd "squishing" of parts, stuff out of alignment, and "rough" patches. ?There's even the same "double seam" if I look close.








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J0k3r
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:22 pm 
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Yeah, I reckon thats a real mole too- i remember them being very badly cast :)

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:32 pm 
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(J0k3r @ Apr. 02 2008,09:22)
QUOTE
Yeah, I reckon thats a real mole too- i remember them being very badly cast :)

I'm in agreement that it's genuine. Some of the minis from the late 80's and early 90's had horrible mold lines.

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Niblebitzer
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:43 pm 
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Double mold lines werent that rare back then. I think I cleaned some just two weeks ago from giblitgrinda or skullhamma.
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Warmaster Nice
 Post subject: Genuine Mole or dirty counterfeit?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:25 pm 
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I agree: Casting quality back then was pretty bad so the pitted surfece isn't that uncommon. However I am still a bit worried about the air bubble in the mould that clearly shows in the tracks: I'd really think GW at least got that right back then. The double mould lines are suspicious as well, however I have also seen that on genuine models: Sometimes they haven't cleaned the old mould lines properly before making new moulds: I know I've seen it on some old Eldar stuff as well as the Mk4 gargant (Which is based on th body of the Mk2).
Dunno. It certainly doesn't HAVE to be a fake, but it does bare the hallmarks of poor casting that is common on recasts.

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