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Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
Legion 4
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:14 am 
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I agree M/J !  The S/W Stormtroopers should go back to basic training !  And Star Trek - Indeed !!  :D

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dafrca
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:21 am 
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One of my favorite parts of this thread is the way we can all disagree on points and remain both civil and respectful. Wish it were so all of the time for all people.

You guys are great.

dafrca

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:23 am 
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Oh yeah !!  I'll fight any man in this bar for a dollar !! :D

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dafrca
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:27 am 
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(Legion 4 @ Aug. 30 2006,22:23)
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Oh yeah !! ?I'll fight any man in this bar for a dollar !! :D

How much to get you to not fight?  :p

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iblisdrax
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:12 am 
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Thats why I never stray too far from these boards... :)


That and I run out of string to find my way back again.... :p


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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:21 am 
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(iblisdrax @ Aug. 31 2006,05:40)
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That argument would work, if they had simply cut the 'lecture/monologes' as you say, and left the action.  Instead, they changed the entire premise of the novel....  For example, the worst, in my mind, was the change from exo-suits (in the novel) to basically just marines with shiny guns ( in the movie) .   That  pretty well destroyed the entire thing, right there.  And probably done simply to avoid expensive CG-graphics sequences.  I really really wish that they had either a) named the movie something else, or b) gave up and tossed it into the trash.  
    As far as the simplistic sociopolitical world view, well, there are wide ranges of opinions all over on that.   You still need to take everything into perspective here...he wasnt attempting to write novels to change the world, except in a few cases.  Most of his works were sold as pulp science fiction, and are some of the best example of that type.  


just my 2cents,

ib

IIRC the exo-suit combat/training scenes only take up about 10-20% of the novel.

The majority of the book was socio-political talk about the benefits of destroying the 'self' for the sake of the nation, and it would have made a terrible movie.

Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting book on a theoretical level, quite educational, but it's not the paragon of future military action that it's become lauded as. There's what, two actual action scenes in the whole thing?




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Markconz
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:45 am 
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(Legion 4 @ Aug. 31 2006,04:40)
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And the Infantrymen of the movie, demonstrated ?tactical capabilities of boy scouts ! ?

My thought was movie extras given no training at all.

Boy scouts would have been preferable.  

I still loved the movie though...   :D

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am 
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No, the lack of tactical sense in the movie was quite intentional, it's all part of the satire, that's what makes the movie so fun!




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Magnus
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:38 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Aug. 31 2006,10:21)
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Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting book on a theoretical level, quite educational, but it's not the paragon of future military action that it's become lauded as.

"Paragon of future military action"?? ?:O

Is that the book where the disappearing of logistics is expliticly theorized we're speaking of?
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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:42 am 
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(javelin98 @ Aug. 30 2006,17:35)
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I'll bet you're thinking of another Arnie movie, Total Recall, which was based on the PKD story "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale".  Great story, if you've never read it.

Nope, I got that one:

The original to Total Recall (We Can Remeber It For You Wholesale) is an excellent short piece, and with a total twist in the ending compared to the film.


It must be another one that I am thinking of!  :p

I would also state that his short stories are much better than his longer stuff, and I dont think that it is a coincidence that many of his more popular and well-known stuff started as a short story.

I do also agree that characterisation is limited sometimes.

I think that I liked the SST movie because I have never read the book (and dont intend to).

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Bombot
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:08 am 
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(iblisdrax @ Aug. 31 2006,05:40)
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For example, the worst, in my mind, was the change from exo-suits (in the novel) to basically just marines with shiny guns ( in the movie) . ? That ?pretty well destroyed the entire thing, right there. ?

Really, I don't think that the outfits of the Marines were central to the point that the movie was making.  

I really liked the movie.  I like the way Verhoven puts these satires out in the guise of blockbuster action films.  Now, I do understand why big fans of the book might get annoyed by the film.  I haven't read it, but I've read about it, and it doesn't really sound like my cup of tea.

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iblisdrax
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:34 am 
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The suits were certainly not the only point of the novel, but, it is a Science Fiction novel....so deleting the suits was simply wrong.  If they just wanted an action movie about shooting bugs, they could have named it anything.  
    As for the action sequences in the book, there are more than you think.   It is true that the only 'detailed' battle was that on planet P, but the others, at least a half dozen of them, could have been fleshed out.  More than enough for a 2 hour movie.
    I guess the thing that saddens me the most is that I was hoping to see CGG sequences of cap troopers 'punching' out of their ship and  'dropping' into combat through the atmosphere.  So much potential....destroyed...  :(

Sigh.  Now I want to go blow up Hollywood movie studios again.  :p


ib

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:02 pm 
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I would comment again, but E&C said pretty much everything I would have.

Good show, old chap! :D

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Justiniel
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:46 pm 
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CS, the only other one (movie) I can think of is 'Paycheck', is that the one you are thinking of?

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Philip K. Dick was a freaking genius
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:11 pm 
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(iblisdrax @ Aug. 31 2006,06:34)
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The suits were certainly not the only point of the novel, but, it is a Science Fiction novel....so deleting the suits was simply wrong.

Agreed. The MI aren't MI without their powered suits. Yes, it would have been sooo cool to see them dropping through the atmosphere, even if it were purely CG.

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