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If you were in charge of GW and SG...

 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:22 am 
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(CyberShadow @ Aug. 18 2006,10:24)
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I think that all games would benefit from the cross-exposure, and it would be an advantage to stop thinking of the various games as distinct. This would only really be a change in marketting and presentation, but I think that it would require very little capital or effort.

I agree with CS on this point. How much effort would it really take for GW to advertise SG games? How about a little more exposure on the main GW website? Or a little bit of space in WD? Or as Consectari mentioned, some SG promos in core games? It seems to me that it would be in GW's best interest to try to keep gamers who get tired of/outgrow 40k by trying to steer them towards SG games. I honestly find it hard to believe that funds spent on "spreading the word" of SG games (Epic in particular  :D ) wouldn't result in SG profits exceeding this investment in advertisement.

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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:52 am 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Aug. 19 2006,03:22)
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(CyberShadow @ Aug. 18 2006,10:24)
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I think that all games would benefit from the cross-exposure, and it would be an advantage to stop thinking of the various games as distinct. This would only really be a change in marketting and presentation, but I think that it would require very little capital or effort.

I agree with CS on this point. How much effort would it really take for GW to advertise SG games? How about a little more exposure on the main GW website? Or a little bit of space in WD? Or as Consectari mentioned, some SG promos in core games? It seems to me that it would be in GW's best interest to try to keep gamers who get tired of/outgrow 40k by trying to steer them towards SG games. I honestly find it hard to believe that funds spent on "spreading the word" of SG games (Epic in particular ?:D ) wouldn't result in SG profits exceeding this investment in advertisement.

But is there any point in advertising one line of my product instead of another? - I want just enough advertising to make sure gamers realise SG exists, so that when they tire of my main range they will investigate SG first before other companies. I don't want to waste advertising on fruitless competition between ranges. If people are happy buying my main products that is fine, why rock the cash cow unecessarily?  :)

I would consider Cybershadows idea of backcatalogue items ?being available. It does create problems from the point of view of inventory stocks, low actual demand, and the requirement for extra specialist staff training. ?If I introduce it I will charge an exceptional premium for it (which I myself would be happy to pay to get a few rare bits and pieces, as I'm sure many loyal customers will do given what they pay for such items on e-bay ?:;): ).





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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:39 am 
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FRack it ! ?Who needs G/W ?! ?DRM, GZG, etc., etc. is the future of 6mm Sci-Fi ... I'm putting even money that we'll see lots of new 6mm Sci-fi in '07, but they won't include G/W Epic ... ?Hope I'm wrong ...




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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:51 am 
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I do think that GW's doing a really lackluster job of trying to interest people in many of its SG product lines.  The back few pages of the main games' rulebooks and a few pages in the codices/army books could attract a great deal of interest.  For example, the main rule books would advertise taking the game to another scale, either clashes between armies or battles in space, and the codex ads would focus on expanding your collection of a race by exploring other aspects of their combat doctrine.

I imagine that Forgeworld could be used to good effect here.  As with the Epic Tau, they could be made to produce a range (if sometimes a limited one) for every main Epic and BFG faction, which gives you something to actually advertise.  As is, Epic simply doesn't hold a great deal of appeal for 40k Chaos and Tyranid players; they can't play Chaos and Tyranids.

Aside from increased exposure for SGs, I wouldn't touch them that much.  The big changes would be to main systems.

The current system is counterproductive.  Most Daemonhunters players would buy Marine models if they were released instead, most Lost and the Damned players would buy Guard, and there's probably a similar relationship between Dark Eldar and Eldar.  However, with Daemonhunters and Marines both having codices and getting models, they're coming out with twice as many models and twice as many rules for almost the same number of sales.  As well, and judging from the internet (not the best source, obviously), the tremendous wait between codex, model, and rule updates for a favored faction gives many players the free time to go look at one of the many fantastic systems that GW's competitors are producing.  And, except for finding a game (they're not that popular yet), these games consistently get better feedback.  GW can't afford to keep letting players slip away.  There's going to be a tipping point where these other games are getting sufficient exposure by virtue of their increasing popularity to cause a mass exodus of 40k and Fantasy players.

So, the first step is to cut redundant armies.  I only know 40k, so I can't speak for Fantasy, but the Inquisition's gone, specialist lists like Lost and the Damned are cut, and the Dark Eldar are so ridiculously unpopular that no one will miss them (provided GW makes some noises about doing it to provide better support to the other armies, and follows through on it).  I could see cutting the Necrons, too.  I'm tempted to cut the Orks (they don't seem to sell, and it seems that new players after a CC army go straight to 'nids), but that'd require a pretty thorough rewrite of the fluff, which wouldn't be at all popular.  All the individual Marine Chapter codices are out.

GW should then place a great deal of importance on putting out quality rules.  Listen to the more experienced of fans, make it clear that player opinions do make a difference, even consider putting up experimental rules or units on their website.  Keep coming out with codices every 3 or 4 months and new editions every time all the codices are done (however, because there are only the Marines, Guard, Chaos, Eldar, Tyranids, Tau, Orks, and maybe Necrons to write, they get through a complete cycle every 3 years instead of every 5).  Models for a faction are not released all together (I certainly don't want to be spending $200 all of a sudden when the new Eldar codex comes out, and I won't be - I'll just buy the ones I like best, and I'll probably have forgotten my need for the others as soon as the 'shiny' factor wears off); instead, releases for factions are put out at a fairly constant rate.  New units would come out with new codices, when their rules are introduced, but updates to older figures would trickle out after.  This gives players something to look forward to even when they got a codex six months ago and a rulebook update is two years off.  It negates the need for specialist lists like the Inquisition, since I'll always have new models coming out for players to spend their money on.  Now, I wouldn't eliminate things like the Grey Knights entirely - a WD somewhere (or the website) would, at some point, put up rules for using a squad of GKs as an Elites choice in a Marine or Guard army, but there would be no models (at least, not unless they proved ridiculously popular).

The real trick, though, is to enhance rule quality by harnessing fan power.  I mean no disrespect, and I greatly appreciate what many of you have done for SG, but, from GW Corporate's perspective, you're a bunch of suckers.  They've put one or two staff on SG, and all they have to do is occasionally pump out more minis from existing molds and let you unpaid players keep the rules fresh and balanced and grow interest in the game.  Epic is free money for them at this point; they don't care what happens to it.  There are a bunch of players on a bunch of forums with really good ideas, far better than what many of GW's paid devs seem capable of coming up with, and they're willing to work for nothing.  If GW were to go up to Bolter and Chainsword and ask their moderators to compile a list of suggested changes for a new Marine codex that adequately represent the desires of the Marine community, they'd probably end up with something fairly high quality (and better edited than what they do themselves).  After that, posting up experimental rules for playtest also takes a great deal of pressure off of GW.  Internal playtest ought to be sufficient to correct the more egregious imbalances, and you're all set.  Over the six months after codex release, you figure out whether anything's working oddly, and you issue a FAQ to fix it (this too is something that many forums would be more than happy to do - I'd tend to trust dakka).  They'd have lower costs, better rules, less redundancy in the model range, and a more efficient sales model.


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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:20 pm 
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(Vermis @ Aug. 18 2006,21:36)
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(Morg @ Aug. 18 2006,16:40)
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...a "german style" boardgame

Pardon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-style_board_game

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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:56 pm 
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(Gotchaye @ Aug. 21 2006,01:51)
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I do think that GW's doing a really lackluster job of trying to interest people in many of its SG product lines.

If that's not an understatement, I don't know what is.  :D

Well stated, Gotch. I agree that GW needs to create better rules, but the problem is GW isn't really a game company any more: it's a minis company. How many years has it been since they produced a game that didn't require minis? 12? Even then, GW made minis for a game that didn't need them (Talisman).

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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:47 pm 
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I honestly think one of GWs problems is stagnation, each time they release a new edition of their core rules it seems like it takes even longer for them to get back to updating the armies they have for that system until untold years pass by between player interest. I'm an ork player in 40k and I dont know how many times I've thought, Ho Hum maybe next year GW will put out something I'll want. After years of this lethargy is it any wonder that armies other than Marines arent selling figs at an exceptional rate. Plus of course the vehicles, especially the trucks are utter crap. If GW is just a minatures company, then let them get off their asses and produce some minatures I want!
not to mention that seeing really old models continually marked up in price doesnt exactly incourage me to buy either.





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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:12 pm 
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Good site Morg, thanks ! :D   Well like I said ... I'd be a bit surprised if we see much Epic from G/W ... ever ... :(

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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:13 pm 
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(Legion 4 @ Aug. 21 2006,13:12)
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Well like I said ... I'd be a bit surprised if we see much Epic from G/W ... ever ... :(

Unfortunately, I agree.  :(

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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:18 pm 
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DRM ... GZG ... BT ... etc., etc. ... We always have options ... :D

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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:01 pm 
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If I were in charge of GW & SG, I'd move LOTR to the SG stable, and reinstate Epic as the 3rd Core game.

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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:05 pm 
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I'd spend a little money, and dig out all the old Epic molds that aren't currently in production (metal Mk6 Marines, anyone?), and put them back into production.  I'd also try to get them updated as needed (all the different poses that the Mk6's were in, and now they're wearing Mk7 armor, with the new-style heavy weapons).  

Then I'd push to get Epic minis made for all the different 40k factions.  I'd time the Market release of the Epic stuff for the tail end of the 40k release cycle (Now that you've gotten the hang of this army's play style, here's how they play in big battles...), with a battle report in WD.  Same thing with Fantasy and Warmaster releases.  

I'd push LotR and BoFA into Specialist Game's territory, as LotR is a skirmish like Mordheim or Necromunda, and BoFA is battle scale like Warmaster (this may not be possible, due to the licensing arrangement, but it's worth a try.)

I'd also try to re-open the Archives, but there would have to be a premium price (since the molds aren't in general use, they have to be checked before use, and a couple test batches made to warm the mold up before production casting can start, which means less time available for productive molds, and higher labor costs for using Archive molds), in addition to certain minimum order sizes (maybe not per person, but there would need to be enough demand to use the entire production of a mold, minus about 5% for miscasts), so that there could be some delay between order placement and casting.

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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:06 am 
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Hi!

I think GW has reached the high water mark of their current marketting strategy. Perhaps the sagging profits are a sign of this.

Im wondering what new scheme they'll come up to stem the tide.

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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:55 am 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Aug. 21 2006,17:13)
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(Legion 4 @ Aug. 21 2006,13:12)
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Well like I said ... I'd be a bit surprised if we see much Epic from G/W ... ever ... :(

Unfortunately, I agree. ?:(

Guys!!!

Please try and stick to the topic of the thread! I know it is hard but the other thread is the place for the usual moaning.

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 Post subject: If you were in charge of GW and SG...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:45 am 
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Sorry ... :(  I'll go to my room and feel shame ... :(  I'll increase my meds ... :;):

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