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netepic
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Post subject: War "Experts"  Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:15 pm |
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Location: Southfields, London, England
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The exocets were nasty :s, I think it is a fair bet that if you see an SA-80 it will be British troops, other armies have more sense!
However, seeing as we tend to borrow most of our stuff from the US including food now days (our army has kinda fallen a long way now) it is somewhat hard to tell.
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primarch
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:18 pm |
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
Has the british army reall been so dimished? It be a shame, I always thought they were "tough hombres".
Primarch
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netepic
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:23 pm |
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Our troops are amongst the best in the world, our tanks are superb - our basic assault rifle is pretty naff even after having been redesigned by H&K.
And of course, our army is tiny and all the expensive but necessary stuff is phased out because in the words of the politicians a few years back pre-sept 11th. Britains armed forces are no longer needed to fight wars, instead to meet the changing political landscape we are downsizing to a rapid reaction force.
It was the justification for scraping a load of our tanks and aircraft.
Then we had to invade Iraq and realised that we couldn't handle an invasion, if it wasn't for the quality of our troops and commanders we would have been buggered. Oh and of course the Americans leant us shed loads of equipment and food  .
We even did an exercise pre-Iraq which determined that we couldn't handle a sustained war even if we wanted too!
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primarch
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:29 pm |
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Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
Yes, British tanks are great. After all, you guys invented Chaubum (Chobham) armor and lent it to us.
Too bad the infantry weapon is bad, that's an important part of an army's effectiveness.
Maybe they'll invent a real bolter...
Primarch.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:47 pm |
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All very true, and she was sunk by a UK sub, Jimbo. ?They interviewed the Skipper on the History Channel. ?The UK troopers are always of the highest order. ?And the US M1 uses the Chobham armor, literally a lifesaver ! ?The SA-80 is considered a pretty good weapon, but the new German G36 from H&K would be my choice. ?Of course the US is working on a replacement for the M16/M4 - the XM-29. ?Basically an M16 with a 20mm magazine fed GL on top ! ?With computer targeting ! ?The closest thing to a bolter ! ? ? ? ?
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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netepic
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:57 pm |
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And lets not forget the Harrier  . But that was before we decided that having an army was too expensive.
*Stops mentioning the real budget issue before politics seep in*
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:59 pm |
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Don't remind me what ahappened to the aviation idustry in Britain either!
Wasn't the Harrier the last combat aircraft produced wholely in Britain?
Or was it the Lightning?
Shabbat Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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netepic
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:04 pm |
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Grrr.... it is embarrasing isn't it. Our joint projects aren't that much better either *cough*Eurofighter*cough*
Of course if you really wanna upset us Brits ask as what happened to our navy! Lol
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primarch
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:13 pm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
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Hi!
Its sad about the aviation industry. Let us not forget that the WWII P-51 was the "cadillac of the sky" due to its Royals Royce engine fo british design.....
Primarch
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Jimbo
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:50 pm |
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| Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 06 2003 Dec.,17:59) | | Don't remind me what ahappened to the aviation industry in Britain either! |
What happened??
The UK aerospace industry is the second largest in the world....
And the UK is certainly in the top five defence exporting countries.
I think it is unlikely we will be able to get to the number one spot again unless something drastic happens to Boeing!
Wasn't the Harrier the last combat aircraft produced wholely in Britain?
Or was it the Lightning? |
actually it is the Hawk
okay so used in the UK for training, it is used abroad for combat operations
though what is wrong with joint ventures?
The US seems to think it's okay for the JSF...
You do it because collaboration with international partners helps to spread risks, leverage technologies, and improve access to capital for new projects.
_________________ Jimbo
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Jimbo
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:55 pm |
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| Quote (netepic @ 06 2003 Dec.,19:04) | | Of course if you really wanna upset us Brits ask as what happened to our navy! Lol |
okay so we're moving away from anti-submarine warfare to more supporting ground operations but that's the way the world is changing
Yes we will lose the three ASW "carriers" and have them replaced by two much larger fixed wing carriers...
True the Navy is smaller than it was at the time of the Falklands... however I am sure that the Soviet threat is not really a threat any more..._________________ Jimbo
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Legion 4
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:09 am |
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I saw on the news today, the last Harrier rolled off the US assembly line, making 700 produced. The next generation of aircraft is in the making, the JSF, etc. As soon as the threat of the USSR declined, the US Army went from 780,000 to 450,000 in a very short time. That's why I'm here instead of the Front(s), or retired. They started deactivating units, they couldn't promote us, so they sent us home without a pension. 10 1/2 years of experience, but they didn't need me or many others anymore. The US Goverment didn't wait to see where the "chips would fall". Funny, I bet they could use those troops now ...
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Gandalf the Grey
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:46 am |
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Legion, the G36 would be my weapon of choice too. Along with a guy carrying around an MG3. It is amazing how awesome German firearms have been the last 60 years, and how 'average' our weapons have been. That is until lately.
The harrier is fine for close air support, but up against any decently trained pilot in any airforce in a 'real' fighter, he would simply get his but kicked. They just aren't fast enough.
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Jimbo
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Post subject: War "Experts" Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:34 am |
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| Quote (Gandalf the Grey @ 07 2003 Dec.,04:46) | | The harrier is fine for close air support, but up against any decently trained pilot in any airforce in a 'real' fighter, he would simply get his but kicked. ?They just aren't fast enough. |
so....
the A10 Thunderbolt is a pretty decent ground attack aircraft, but up against any decently trained pilot in any airforce in a 'real' fighter, he would simply get his but kicked. ?They just aren't fast enough...
the B2 Stealth Bomber is a pretty decent bomber, but up against any decently trained pilot in any airforce in a 'real' fighter, he would simply get his but kicked. ?They just aren't fast enough...
Air Force One is a pretty decent Presidential transport, , but up against any decently trained pilot in any airforce in a 'real' fighter, he would simply get his but kicked. ?It just isn't fast enough...
 
The Harrier was designed as close air support in the field and not needing an airfield to operate from could operate very close to the front line. This is why the RAF and the US Marines chose it.
The Royal Navy realised they could use it from their "helicopter" carriers and provide some air support for British ships which otherwise would not be available. In the Falklands the Harrier did remarkably well against the decently trained (read French and US trained) pilot in the Argentinean airforce in a 'real' fighter (the Etendard and A4 were not bad aircraft).
The Harrier is a good aircraft for the purpose it is designed for._________________ Jimbo
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