Having a "policy" not playing against someone just because they don't have a painted army just whiffs of exclusive elitism. The toilet roll Killer Kans is a bit out there though but I could look the other way if they were just starting out.
Spot on with the sportsmanship comment though. However, it can be funny putting them in their place and watching their little smile fade and the bottom lip begin to tremble prior to a strop... but not every game though.
WYSIWYG also seems like a Corporate ploy to me. Another ruse just to get you to buy more. I never use it, I have an imagination and after reading this I must have more tolerance for my fellow gamers than I at first imagined.

I'm glad there are so many of you that would still play against an unpainted army. Epic players are rare enough without restrictions or putting other players off. I play a game to play a game not to ogle at it and think how great it looks... although that is part of it and admittedly is getting more important as I paint more.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

No new miniatures, but lots of new rules. Don't forget all the army lists and even games people publish here. And their updates.

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"Your limbs are mighty. Let them smite the foes of our Emperor."

Unapologetically  - guilty as charged!    For most systems anyway, if I'm going to bother playing I want the full deal, and there's no problem finding opponents with the same attitude. However...

I'm glad there are so many of you that would still play against an unpainted army. Epic players are rare enough without restrictions or putting other players off. I play a game to play a game not to ogle at it and think how great it looks... although that is part of it and admittedly is getting more important as I paint more.

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http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/

By Markconz | Posted on 02 Dec. 2008, 11:05

Unapologetically  - guilty as charged!    For most systems anyway,

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

1) what's your view on unpainted armies?

I actually tend to have two separate hobbies when it comes to miniature wargaming.  One is the gaming side of things and one is the art side of things.  On the gaming side of things its all about having fun and enjoying time rolling dice.  I really don't care what playing pieces that my opponent uses as long as it is clear what they represent so I can have a fair game.   On the art side of things I love creating fully painted armies, the imagery of a full science fiction army painted on the tabletop is what got me into Epic in the first place.  So sometimes gaming is for the art side of things and its just about having the best looking armies and terrain on the table.

Both things I really like and enjoy but for me if I can have both...... now that is a perfect combination.

2) When is an army not an army and just a bunch of plastic figures?

In my opinion figurines are basically just playing pieces until they have until they have been painted in such a way that they really capture the imagination and invoke the imagery of the army they are supposed to represent.  As such some painted miniatures are still just playing pieces, they really need to be of a table top standard to be classified as anything else by me.

3) what makes us wargamers buy more stuff than we have time for?!

Because it might get taken off the shelf before I get around to having time for it and that would be terrible....... ohhhhh and I just want it and I have to have one....... ohhhh and what if we want to play a BFG battle between race x and y followed by a kill team scenario and AI mission then a huge game of epic with special scenarios determined by the previous games........... ohhh and I guess I am just nuts.

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Epic- A version of the game with even smaller models that is often dominated by titans which are vehicles the size of a large building and have the ability to pwn...everything. There is also infantry, whose only function in Epic is to provide valuable traction to Titans walking across snowy paths.

Well, for me and probably to some others it's more about being involved in a universe/background than "just" playing a game and in this case looks are more important.

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"Your limbs are mighty. Let them smite the foes of our Emperor."

I've been caught up in the universe/background too and it is where most ideas generate from. If I couldn't play Epic though I don't think I would continue to follow it though.

For me painting has become more important and I think that tends to be the case as you get better at it and begin to enjoy the results. However, when I first began collecting Epic this took a looong time to catch on.

I can see that it would be galling if the other chap your playing didn't look like he was bothered and had an unpainted army full of ludicrous proxy's and then beat you soundly at your favourite game with an army that you laboriously assembled and lavishly painted.    It's happened to me and reminds me I should pay more attention to my game playing than how good my army looks while I play.    It also teaches sprtsmanship the hard way... when your losing.  

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

I think this is one topic we are always going to have differences of opinion over, and it has been interesting to see the various points of view. I think part of one's viewpoint is dependant on how thriving a local gaming community you have locally, especially in relation to who actually know about or even play Epic.

I think my personal view is broadly in the middle of many opinions voiced. I like to paint but struggle to find the time and with declining eyesight find 6mm a challenge. I will occasionally buy already painted figures but with tightened economic circumstances that is no longer an option. So I like to field all painted armies but there are times when have no choice, especially if trying out new unit whether for playtest or to vary the army.
So I wont be strict and am happy to play against unpainted armies.

However the painting and modelling side is a big attarction of the hobby, and it is a shame that some gamers neglect this. I tend to find I dont enjoy playing these gamers. So given a choice would happily gravitate to playing opponents who care about their armies theme/backgound and spend time on the painting/modelling side of the hobby.

Luckily though at the moment I have the fortune of playing Epic one or twice per month against Colin aka Kleomenes who has several nicely painted Epic armies and terrain. And previously got to play against Damian aka Emperors Shadow and is lovely painted armies.

But Colin and I are trying to encourage several other members of our local club to either take up or resume Epic. I know some of these will be starting from scratch and so wont have fully painted armies immediately. I guess all we can do is provide a hopefully positive example and hope new players do likewise.

Cheers

James

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My TOEG- Blood Angels and Deathbolts
My Painting Blog- Evil Sunz, Goffs
My Epic trades list

What I find the most interesting is how the view of the "hobby" seems to drive the way people react.

For me, I think there are really a few hobbies being mixed together by a powerful marketing machine and some buy into it. IMO there are the following Hobbies and each has it's followers.

1) Figure Painting - This is a hobby in and of itself. There are lots of Historical Figure Painters who have never played a war game. Model builders who do not own a single set of rules. The focus of this hobby is the painting of the figures and the creation of nice "bases" or dioramas.

2) Figure Collection - This hobby includes those who want to find that rare- OoP figure or have a full unit made up of the old first edition figure. In some cases this hobby needs to leave things unpainted to show what they are. I saw a company of epic marines left unpainted just so you would know they were 100% made up of the metal marines hat were included in the original Space Marine blisters.

3) War Game Playing - This hobby is about the game. How do the rules go together? How does one particular unit or figure impact the overall army? This hobby is as much to do with the rulebook and the tactics as it is about the figures. This person has fun “in the gameâ€Â

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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
              - Cities of Death, page 59

Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com

Well and insightfully said, wizened old monkey with glasses.

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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
              - Cities of Death, page 59

Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com

Also guilty as charged!  What can I say; You have to have standards.  

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DWWFY ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

(Warhead @ 02 Dec. 2008, 10:21 )

Having a "policy" not playing against someone just because they don't have a painted army just whiffs of exclusive elitism.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]