E&C: Nope, I mean Thunderhawks. There's a listing in IA2 (a little sidebar text box) that has a description of the different weapon loads used for each mission, but the Thunderhawk listing in my copy of IA3 is just the Transporter, and IA4 . It's on the bottom of page 155. I'd quote it in it's entirety, but I can't get the multiple columns to format properly. Instead, I'll post them column by column.
Troop Insertion Mission 1 x dorsal mounted turbo-laser (or battle cannon) 2 x Lascannons on attack wings 4 x Heavy Bolters in twin-linked mounts on forward fuselage 4 x Heavy Bolters in twin-linked mounts under wing tips Your basic, plain-Jane THawk, almost as it appears in Epic (the only change is the inclusion of the twin lascannon). The extra 45cm AT4+ would help a bit, but not much. Close Air Support Mission (Low-level attacks against identified targets) 1 x dorsal mounted turbo-laser (or battle cannon) 2 x Lascannons on attack wings 4 x Heavy Bolters in twin-linked mounts on forward fuselage 4 x Heavy Bolters in twin-linked mounts under wing tips 6 x Hellstrike, long range air to surface missiles under wings The THawk listing in the 40k rules is actually this version. I would assume, based on RL physics, that a Thunderhawk flying CAS is empty of troops, but you need to throw RL out the window when you're talking GW. I wouldn't mind seeing this version, either, but it really doesn't matter much. Either version of the Thunderhawk would increase the Marine's AT capabilities (45cm AT4+ from the lascannons and 3x 120cm AT4+ from the Hellstrikes). It still wouldn't help the Marine's lack of AA capability, though. Saturation Bombing Mission (Low-level interdiction attacks) 1 x dorsal mounted turbo-laser (or battle cannon) 2 x Lascannons on attack wings 4 x Heavy Bolters in twin-linked mounts on forward fuselage 4 x Heavy Bolters in twin-linked mounts under wing tips 18 x bombs mounted on triple pylons under wings (some incendiary) This version is the one I'd really like to see on the Epic battlefield, instead of the Marauder for Marine lists. For game purposes, I'd say that the bomber versions 'sacrificed' their troop transportation capabilities for bombing capabilities (ie, TH Bombers would have no transport capability, but would have about 6BP One-Shot (following the FW examples in IA3), or 3-4BP following the SG practice (4BP would be better game-wise, IMO, but a Thunderhawk carries 18 bombs instead of a Marauder's 24 max, so really should be 3BP). Long-Range Bombing Mission (Demolition against hardened targets) 1 x dorsal mounted turbo-laser (or battle cannon) 2 x Lascannons on attack wings 4 x Heavy Bolters in twin-linked mounts on forward fuselage 2 x external auxiliary fuel pods under wings 4 x large guided bombs under wings (delay fused) 2 x large guided bombs (melta warheads) under wing tips Epic is a Tactical game at most (most versions of the Battle of Gettysburg are Grand Tactical, where a stand of infantry is company-battalion sized, depending on rules system), and strategic air support is not appropriate for the Tactical battlefield (Just ask any Vietnam gamer about having an Arc Light raid for air support (essentially, remove everything on the board) ). Starship Intercept (Zero-gravity bombing mission) 1 x dorsal mounted turbo-laser (or battle cannon) 2 x Lascannons on attack wings 4 x Heavy Bolters in twin-linked mounts on forward fuselage 6 x large guided bombs under wings (plasma warheads) 2 x large guided bombs (melta warheads) under wing tips Note that the last 2 versions replace the wingtip heavy bolters with the melta warhead bombs, compromising defense for more bombload.
Thunderbolts, OTOH, only carry 4 bombs at the most.
**************** E&C: The 3rd ed Marine codex has a deployment of Marines from the reserve companies (attached to a Rogue Trader), and IAs 2, 3 and 4 all include Marines from the Reserve companies in operational deployments. Almost all deployments of Marines include some artillery support. Even the Black Templars (who don't have access to Whirlwinds in 40k!) have a few Whirlwinds listed in one crusade (it's in Codex: Black Templars). If every time you send Marines out, you give them a(n Epic) detachment of Whirlwinds, you need lots of Whirlwinds in the armory!
L4, are those converted Sabres, or are they 'factory'? Also, you never did answer my question. Is a Sabre armed with a battlecannon, or is it an autocannon? I downloaded the netEpic unit description, and it says 'autocannon' for the Saber's weapon. What on earth are they thinking?!? An autocannon is next to worthless against tanks. (I guess this means I really will be building the 'Predator w/ battlecannon' in 40k)
I think I've got a copy of the old SM1 TO&Es someplace, so I guess I'll have to go look through the storage unit.
Based on the netEpic support cards (3 Sabres, 3 Preds or 3 Vindis), there would be 4 Sabres (note spelling correction) per E:A detachment.
I noticed that you didn't disagree with my characterization of Grunts, L4. Are you admitting that's an accurate description?
Markconz: Yeah, I hear you. My Marine casualties are horrible, even my 'victories' seem rather Pyrrhic.
Personally, I believe that the 1000 Marines (well, roughly 900 plus however many Scouts you have) refers only to Marine Infantry, and does not include HQ staff or armored vehicle crews. This makes it easier to justify the numbers to myself. Besides, I play Dark Angels, who have more toys than most other chapters.
First and Finest!
_________________ "For the Lion and the Emperor!"
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