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[GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:15 pm 
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Battlefleet Mars.



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Otterman
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:17 pm 
And regarding tools, paints, etc...

How can they hope to exceed the quality of Winsor Newton? God knows they won't be cheaper.

Better tools? Equivalent tools can always be purchased at lower costs through art suppliers and such.

Better paints? Maybe. I like Vallejo, but they can stand some improvement (e.g. Ivory, which PPP does better as Menoth highlight) in pigmentation, consistency, and a little bottle agitator (such as Reaper). As the resident paint whore, I'll update everyone on the new Foundation class release in April.
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Otterman
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:17 pm 
Battlefleet Mars! Whoa-ho! Sweet.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:23 pm 
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I've had a god with the new Foundation paints... they're much better than the standard GW range, the pigmentation is such that most of them will cover over black with only one or two layers even when diluted.

Plus one of the new colours is 'Astartes Grey' which is just about spot on to the grey I'm permenantly mixing as a halfway point between Codex Grey and Black. Very happy with that one.

I can't see myself considering any brushes that GW might put out though, I buy nice sable ones for the same price as GW's acryllics.

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blackhorizon
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:41 pm 
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Battlefleet Mars was already in 2004 on display.....(that pic you see...)
...coming summer it *could* get released....

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:51 pm 
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Thanks for the news, Neal, as bad as it is. Unfortunately, this does sound exactly like something GW would do. I'm glad I'm not holding my breath for the Tyranid sprue. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't suprise me if the Chaos sprue is the last Epic release we ever see.

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Enderel
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:32 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Mar. 14 2007,13:51)
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As a matter of fact, it wouldn't suprise me if the Chaos sprue is the last Epic release we ever see.

I'd hope not but it could well be...  :(

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firestorm40k
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:29 pm 
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Well, this weekend I'm going to Warhammer World and I'm planning to spend over ?150 on Epic & SG stuff - including 4 of the Epic Chaos Sprues.  Let's see if that messes up their planned WFB/40k profits balance at all...

I may well hand on a note for Andy Hall when I hand over my money:

"When people are willing to spend this much on SG stuff in one go, you'd be mad not to release more!"

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Steve54
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:49 pm 
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I would advise you to ring ahead and check they have the Chaos Horde in - I was there last Thursday and they had none on the shelves so I used their half hour wait 'mail order' from downstairs but even then they only had 2 boxes in stock.

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Enderel
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:03 pm 
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(Steve54 @ Mar. 14 2007,16:49)
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I would advise you to ring ahead and check they have the Chaos Horde in - I was there last Thursday and they had none on the shelves so I used their half hour wait 'mail order' from downstairs but even then they only had 2 boxes in stock.

Is this a good thing or bad thing?

Good thing - It shows GW that they need to produce more as their initial manufacturing run has run out..

Bad thing - They don't care to produce that much sprues as it's not really a priority for them..

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Carrington
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:39 pm 
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The problem, of course, is that GW is a publicly-owned company.  Citadel produced some nice miniatures, and epic and Warmaster are great sets of miniatures rules.

Given that I was "pulled in" to GW from the "larger" gaming community by the quality of the epic and WM rules, I will quite happily take the rules/models and move back.  As a big, publicly owned company, GW has an enviable global footprint, but I'd suggest that in the end most epiccer/warmastrers (epicures?) will be more happy in the groggier company of the larger (and older) wargaming community.

I'd suggest Consimworld and Historical Miniatures Gaming Society as good "escapes" from the GW orbit.

In terms of the issue of GW's business model itself, you'll find the debates going on in the various company support forums at CSW quite interesting -- how to grow the hobby, what center of gravity, etc.
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Chroma
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:00 pm 
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Well, with the imminent closing of the Canadian warehouse, I'm not sure how long the Oakville Bunker will be around.  Specialist Games is Mail Order only, and it comes out of the U.S. not Canadian stocks.

Not even sure if the Canadian HQ is staying open after the warehouse shuts down.

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:48 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Mar. 14 2007,12:32)
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GW's cash flow is tied up with a project to re-brand Citadel products. ?GW honchos apparently decided that there were too many companies out there making money off of GW's coattails. ?They believe they can release better and cheaper (hah!) products than those companies. ?The plan is to release a new and improved line of Citadel modeling equipment (tools, brushes, paints, etc), as well as projects like the new modular game board and plastic buildings for WFB.

That sounds worryingly predicatable.

Firstly, I think that the main reason that there are so many companies 'on GWs coat-tails' is simply price. GW used to provide quality miniatures and a reasonable price. Now, there are companies that produce equivalent products for the same cost. Other makers are not necessarily cheaper, but something that was pointed out on Warseer was that most other games with similar prices require a lot less miniatures for a game.

Are there actually any direct competitors that GW couldnt see off?

Secondly, the statement about 'the plan is to release a new and improved line of Citadel modeling equipment' I simply dont have faith in. This means a considerable investment for GW (since this is not their core line), and prices are likely to increase, but the customer probably wont notice any rise in quality.

Of course, GW should probably start selling plasticard!

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Heresiarch
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:33 pm 
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(CyberShadow @ Mar. 14 2007,13:48)
QUOTE
Are there actually any direct competitors that GW couldnt see off?

Personally C/S I think GW's business model is now about 10 years out of date. So yeah... I genuinely think at this stage of the game GW is going to have to learn to live with serious competition that's not going to go away.

My local game store is a 12,500 square foot retailer that pretty much stocks everything that's carried by the North American distribution chain as well as the full line of GW/SG products and even some Forge World.

The sales numbers are now pretty telling IMNSHO. Leaving out historicals which attract a different group by and large...

Games Workshop... including FW & SG... runs at about $15,000 per month gross sales.

Pre-painted miniatures as a category... includes D&D/SW/MWDA/Etc singles as well as packs... also runs at about $15,000 gross per month. And at a 20% higher net profit... and at about 50% less footprint in terms of floor space.

Traditional fantasy/sci-fi minis such as Mongoose, RAFM, Ral-Partha, Reaper by comparison are now down to around $1500-2000 per month gross and the total inventory on them now only turns about once every fourteen months.

Personally speaking I think GW has managed to drive away what would have been a large portion of their traditional customer base into the pre-paints due to a combination of cost and marketing.

The Saturday GW games at most now attract 30 people or so on an exceptional weekend. And I do mean exceptional.

By comparison the D&D meet-ups average around 75 people or so with around 250 members in just one club. And theres three clubs that rotate through the stores game space per month.

Then add in the mass shift of potential and actual gamers into MMORPGs and I personally suspect that GW is on serious crack when they think they can keep "growing" the market.

The LotR bubble was just as much a statistical abberation for the game industry as the D20 bubble was for RPGs.

Until the loons at GWHQ realize this is a niche market industry and learn to cater to it as such their revenues are going to keep tanking. Peddling the same crap over and over again at ever higher prices is just not going to work as we all know.

Their retrenchment "plans" are as absurd as former Wizard's of the Coast owner Peter Adkinson's statement that "we're going to make gaming bigger than the movies". Pure fantasy. Nothing more and nothing less.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [GW] The lingering death of Specialist Games
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:37 pm 
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(Heresiarch @ Mar. 14 2007,22:33)
QUOTE
Peddling the same crap over and over again at ever higher prices is just not going to work as we all know.

Speaking of...

I *can't* believe that the Dark Angel special characters are just (more expensive) re-releases of the original sculpts... blew my mind... almost as much as the Eldrad cost.

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