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Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:44 pm 
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quote:
-------------------------
Originally posted by Jervis:

Although 30cm = @1KM, I've also assumed a sliding scale. This isn't nailed down hard and fast (Epic is a game not a simulation), but it works something like this:

15cm = @250m

30cm = @1KM

45cm = @2KM

60cm = @3KM

75cm = @4KM

90cm = @5KM

150cm = @10KM

300cm = @30KM

Interestingly, this means that the closer you get to the enemy, the slower you move, as the ground scale increases but the speed with which you cross it does not. Which happens to be quite realistic in an abstract sort of way, as formations do move much more slowly the closer they get to the enemy. Of course it also means that terrain features can grow and shrink in size, but lets not talk about that

Best regards,

Jervis Johnson
Head Fanatic

----------------------


The whole thread (ground scale) is here :

http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic....D=2634

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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Kudos to Athmos.

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primarch
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:47 pm 
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Hi!

Scale (of distance), other than that of the minis themselves, are one thing I dont worry much about in epic..... :;):

Primarch

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iblisdrax
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:51 pm 
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Especially in Epic...since you shouldnt be worried about 'realism'.  What does it matter whether your lascannon can fire 1km or 10km?  The range is 45 cm regardless.  But, I guess some people have to have something to argue about:
"Hey!  There is no way a lascannon can fire 1km ! Oh yes there is , it's all in the science!"

Just like the classic Star Destoyer vs Enterprise D  arguments.
:p

my 2cents,

iblisdrax

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:52 pm 
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Hmmm ... ???  Interesting concept ... I'll have to think about this ... ???

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dafrca
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:21 pm 
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This is not the first mini game I have heard of that tried to use a sliding scale. I think it is un-needed. I never have had an issue with Epic and thinking about realism. It just is not. It is a game, pure and simple. I accept that there is a lot of the game made for fun and has nothing to do with realistic.

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primarch
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:57 am 
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Hi!

Dafrca has summed up my stance completely. :)

Primarch

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netepic
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:19 am 
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Willl read again when sober, looks wierd to me.

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dafrca
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:28 am 
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Quote (primarch @ 18 2004 Sep.,16:57)
Hi!

Dafrca has summed up my stance completely. :)

Primarch

Why thank you.  :blush:

Nice to know I am in such company.  :cool:

dafrca

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dafrca
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:30 am 
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Quote (netepic @ 18 2004 Sep.,17:19)
Willl read again when sober, looks wierd to me.

Trust me, it will look just as good now as then.  :p

:laugh:

dafrca

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:03 am 
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We try to add a modicum of "realism" in our Epic system. However, range/scale; vertical scale; game scale, etc. is always going the be a conundrum, with minature games.  You just have to do what works for you.

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primarch
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:25 am 
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Hi!

I play epic becuase of the background, realism takes a backseat. When I play Dirtside II for example, I am more demanding in that regard.

Primarch

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:51 pm 
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If I ever need justification of this sort of thing, I go the other way.

The scale is fixed for me, but the range of weapons depends on the technology, the race and other factors. I just find it easier to say that 45cm is so far away, and a LasCannon can fire this far and only this far because of the strange technology situation of the 41st M.

If people are really worrying about concrete scale in Epic, then they are really in the wrong fictional universe! ?:D

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stormseer
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:18 pm 
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Quite... it is kinda unnessecary to complicate things in this way in my opinion.

I will just game and build terrain to look good, not to fit weird sizing arrangements...

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:30 pm 
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In Jervis's defense, 15cm = 250m (firefight range) is about right.

Small Arms - Rifles: With an M-16 or M-14, we were expected to hit a man sized target at 300 meters. Beyond that with the naked eye, a human ?is a very small target. ?

SMGs: And for example an AK-47's performance falls off markedly at about 250m. An Uzi, MP5 and most SMGs were lucky to hit a target beyond 50m.

MGs: Most MGs could hit targets well beyond 500m. ?

AT Weapons: AT weapons for example, M-72 LAW @ 250m, M-47 MAW @ 1000m, TOW @ 3750m. ?

--------------------

Targetting Capabilities: Engaging targets has to do with targeting capabilities as well as weapons specs. A weapon with standard open iron sights can't hit a target as well as the same weapon with a scope. The round will travel the distance regardless.

Cartridges: An M-16 or AK-47 fires an assault rifle cartridge, an M-14 or G-3, a full size rifle cartridge, and an Uzi or MP-5, a pistol cartridge.

So this all plays into hitting the target.

-------------------

Tanks (MBTs): And we know a modern MBT (M1) [based on optics] can hit another AFV at 1500m (USSR) to almost 4000m (US/UK/NATO).

Arty: And an Epic Basilisk could fire almost the range of a real football field! Many modern FA pieces can shoot 15 miles or more!

The L-4 Perspective: So that may just put it all in perspective! ?:;):

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Frecus
 Post subject: Jervis's E-A "Scale-O-Meter"
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:19 pm 
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I'm in favour of simply trying to transfer the model scale.

6mm = 180 cm for simplicity
1mm = 30 cm
1 cm = 3 m

Which makes most vehicles 3-4 m wide and 6-7 m long.
The lascannon firing 45 cm would now have an effective range of 135 m. With all the fog & stuff, I don't find this too unrealistic... Which makes for a good guide for terrain!

Frecus,
The glade wanderer,
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