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Fantasy Games...

 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:06 pm 
Swarm Tyrant
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Hi all. I have realised that just about the only game that I dont own (aside from an air combat game. Any suggestions?), is a decent fantasy game. I am looking for a 28mm fantasy game, and how they compare to Warhammer. Any suggestions?

Also, I am looking for some decent Snakemen miniatures in the same scale. Does anyone know of any out there? I got some very early GW Snakemen with one of my first ever orders, with wooden shields and swords, and they really captured my imagination. So, a few more would be fantastic.

Thanks all.

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:41 am 
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I've heard a lot of good things about Warmachine.  It's very popular here in the northwestern US.  It's a sort of magical steam-punk sort of thing.  The miniatures are for the most part extremely cool-looking.  

 Reaper makes some nice snakemen.  'Nuff said.

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:34 am 
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HOTT (Hordes of the Things), or De Bellis Multitudinous with the 'De Bellis Fantasticus' expansion for big Fantasy games. ?

I've play HOTT off and on, 1-2 hours playing time... nice easy rules. ?One of the DBx family of games by WRG.

Check out this useful fan site:

www.btinternet.com/~alan.catherine/wargames/strong.htm

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:59 pm 
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Thnaks for the link. I looked at HoT, but the reviews made it sound that the actual army used makes less difference than the troop type. In the end, I managed to win a copy of the Battlestorm rules from EBay. Although these are now out of print, they do seem a very interesting rules set. I will see if they meet my requirements. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:59 pm 
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Hi!

I would recommended Armies of Arcana. You can use any type of minis you own, all you need is the rule book and there is tons of support on their website. The mechanics are sound and entertainting.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:28 pm 
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Thanks. I looked at this set, but it seems to be set up for 15mm and runs at $30 for the rules. I will keep an eye out for it if Battlestorm is not what I expect.

Also, does anyone know how I can get hold of some Reaper minis in the UK, preferably via a web site? Thanks.

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:54 pm 
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http://miniaturefigurines.co.uk/cgi-bin....e_id=19

From google

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:35 pm 
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Hi!

I particularly like Chronopia, but its more like skirmishing warbands then "massed combat". I thought battlestorm was OOP?

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:12 pm 
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Mordheim rocks..... Warmaster is also good....

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:26 am 
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I'm guessing that you want a minis game.

If you're thinking of a really great RPG then I highy recommend Ars Magica.

Very cool!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:35 am 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 20 2004 July,12:59)
Thnaks for the link. I looked at HoT, but the reviews made it sound that the actual army used makes less difference than the troop type.

Hmm, maybe I didn't send you to a good review site...the army chosen determines _which_ troop types you can use, so your impression is kinda incorrect. ?I'll provide a bit more info... (though I should really get on with this uni seminar!! :D )

All possible fantasy troop types are divided into the following categories (points cost second):

Aerial Heroes 6
Airboats 4
Artillery 3
Beasts 2
Behemoths 4
Blades 2
Clerics 3
Dragons 4
Fliers 2
Gods 4
Heroes 4
Hordes 1
Knights 2
Lurkers 1
Magicians 4
Paladins 4
Riders 2
Shooters 2
Sneakers 3
Spears 2
Warband 2
Stronghold

Most types are good against some other troop types, bad against others, and many have special abilities. HOTT has the paper/scissors/rock thing down very well (like Epic). ?In warhammer/warmaster and many other fantasy games, things tend to be either good or bad, rather than good at some things and bad at others. ?Warhammer ancients moves away from this somewhat but still not enough really. ?

The back of the book provides generic and also specific army lists... generic goblins have to have a lot of 'horde troop type' elements, generic dwarfs a lot of 'blade troop type' elements, etc. ?All armies have 24AP (points) in a standard game, with no more than half spent on on 3-6AP cost elements. You win when you capture the enemies stronghold ?or destroy half their AP (more common).

One thing that can confuse people is that if two armies have a troop type that is very similar in its battlefield role then it is likely to have the same classification. ?For example the 'Knight troop type' would include human knights, but also Elite orcs on boars, and high elf heavy cavalry. In other games (eg warhammer/warmaster) these two units have similar effect and resilency on the battlefield and functional differences are minimal, HOTT covers such a broad range of troop types that minor differneces are glossed over - if its a heavily armed humanoid riding some sort of heavy horse sized animal its a Knight troop type. ?If it's more lightly armoured and faster its a Rider Troop type. ?If its a really big animal with lots of crew, it is a Behemoth Troop type. If it's a proper dragon, it's a Dragon Troop type :) ?

Sample armies might look like the following, chosen from elements availble in the generic lists:

GOBLIN - heaps of Hordes (unskilled masses), some Riders (wolfriders), Beasts (giant spiders/wolves), Magician, Warband (big goblins).
DWARF - Hero general (including elite bodyguard), lots of Blades (axe units), Shooter (crossbow unit), lots of Artillery (cannons etc).
ELF - Aerial Hero (on eagle etc), Magician, Knight (unit of heavy cavalry), lots of Shooters (longbow units), Spear (guard spearmen), Flyers (eagles).

In short, although the rules and army lists are shorter than most fantasy games, the range of troops and differences in interactions possible makes it feel like you a playing a much bigger more detailed ruleset. Elegant, simple, cheap and clever. ?:)

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:25 pm 
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Thanks to your comments guys. My replies in a rought order:

netepic: As soon as I decide that I have been too tough on Yahoo, and that I will give it another go... it misses a link. Back to Google. The worst thing is that I visited that site a few days before, and then promptly lost it! Thanks, I made a small order yesterday, including this guy which I had to see 'live':

Reptus Warlord

I also looked at Chronopia and Confrontation, but both of those are skirmish games and so not 100% what I am after... although the Chronopia minis are fantastic!

I just downloaded the Mordheim rules last week, and I would love a Witch Hunters gang, but I dont know anyone else who plays and so I cant see myself playing it ever. I have Warmaster, and that is interesting and a good game, but I am also looking for a 25/28mm game (...although Warmaster using Warhammer figures on extra large bases...?)

Yes, I am looking for a minis wargame. I got turned off roleplays a long time ago, after trying a whole set of them (D&D, Aliens, TMNT, Warhammer...). I just never got into them at all, and they are not my thing.

Markconz, thanks for your description. The review that I read was not the link that you posted. The review that I read stated two things that put me off HoT a little.

Firstly, that the actual minis or race was a lot less important than the troop type. That is, a unit of knights would be exactly the same, whether it was Human Knights or Ork Board Riders, and so there was little point actually selecting a force that you liked. (Although I notice that different armies would allow different ratios of troop types and character would come through in this way.) Maybe I have this completely wrong.

Secondly, since HoT is based on the DBx system, the whole chrage/combat/withdraw becomes a little predictable after a while.

And primarch, yes. Battlestorm is indeed out of print. However, I have heard good things about it, it is Ral Partha and I managed to pick up a copy on EBay at only $5!

And, being out of print means that there is less of a need to keep up with the latest suppliment!  :D  I want a simple game that will allow me to tailor it for my own games (I want a Snakeman army, and maybe a Demon force, so I will make it all up).

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:51 pm 
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Hi!

The other question would be does anyone play Battlestrom in your neck of the woods?

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:27 pm 
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Not yet. However, my regular opponent and I have a deal that we will play anything, as long as the person who plays the system can provide both armies. This means that each of us buys and paints whatever we like and try all sorts of new stuff. I am sure that, if I have two forces, I can convince a number of people to play.

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 Post subject: Fantasy Games...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:02 am 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 22 2004 July,12:25)
Firstly, that the actual minis or race was a lot less important than the troop type. That is, a unit of knights would be exactly the same, whether it was Human Knights or Ork Board Riders, and so there was little point actually selecting a force that you liked. (Although I notice that different armies would allow different ratios of troop types and character would come through in this way.) Maybe I have this completely wrong.


Secondly, since HoT is based on the DBx system, the whole chrage/combat/withdraw becomes a little predictable after a while.

Hi Cybershadow

I find that your first point tends not to be a problem, sure in other games these units may have slightly different stats, (or maybe not in warmaster), but these trivial differnces don't ?add much of anything to the game, except taking up uneccessary space in the rules.  The stat line for elf knights and human knights may differ slightly, but what exactly does this achieve in terms of gameplay?

Actually by its very nature as a generic set of Fantasy rules HOTT encourages you to do precisely what you seem to think it doesn't do, ie. it encourages you to select whatever minis/race you like, then classify them as whatever troop type you want - it is a fantasy game after all. ?Provided your opponents understand where you are coming from I guess a paladin goblin is possible (actually I can't see it myself). ?

As for predictability of combat - I see this as a good thing... I want to know that knights will regularly ride down peasants, but not a pike block! ?That is what the tactical gameplay is based on! ?Of course if you get very lucky the peasants might hold off the knights, or the knights smash the pike block. Maybe I don't understand what you are getting at here... perhaps you are meaning that some combats can last for a while? Eg spear walls bashing off each other - historically accurate but kinda boring?

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