binarybob wrote:
I understand where you are coming from Splash, but I think the thrust of it for me, is that AOS should have been brought out as a separate game - after all, they will soon need something to replace LoR.
That I understand, or course. If AoS was a seperate game, I'd still enjoy it. I'm fairly certain that the obsessed haters will still come out in droves and think that their opinions should be everyone else's. Just the nature of the gaming community anymore.
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I "invested" heavily in Warhammer over the years, and my 2 young sons love playing - this of course won't stop us playing it but it does put you off and get more difficult when a game isn't supported (especially for me as I would like to play against people my own age/ability instead of my sons all the time (they are always beating me............).
I, too, invested heavily in WHFB, back when the Tomb Kings were first release (what edition was that?). I was also talked into buying a DE army box. I ended up selling off my TK, and most of the DE ended up in my bitz box. But it is what it is, things change. I don't feel I'm out all of that money and time, as I had fun when I played. I can always go and play older editions if I wanted to. This isn't a probelm with GW, it's a problem with the gaming community.
And as for it getting more difficult when a game isn't supported---E:A seems to have done well for itself after it's death. Take that as a great example and not lose hope.
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For me, GW have really messed up here and although I understand that 8th might not have been doing that well, there are ways and means of doing things rather than completely destroying a gaming system that people liked and played all of the time (8th edition was more popular than 40k at my gaming store).
Sure, but that's all hindsight at the moment. But coming out with something other than AoS isn't a guarantee that you would like it either. And, again, 8th edition isn't destroyed. It can always be played, your minis haven't suddenly gone inert or disappeared, have they? Just like with E:A, you'll have to find a community to play with. I've been doing that since Clan Wars by AEG was killed off. I still have the rules, I still have the miniatures, and I'm quite capable of playing the game given time and opponents. That's not on AEG, that's just on my own amount of determination.
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So , I have invested massively in a game and got my sons into and they go and kill it. I have played AoS and tried to give it ago but even my 8 year old son lost interest after the 3rd game stating "dad, it is all the same each game".
And that kind of feedback I appreciate, better than the "I hatez and won't try it and anyone that likes it is a deranged 6-year old". That mentality is what peeves me off. But I will counter that I do like it, have played it, and I do know people that like it as well. Heck, even my wife is interested in playing, and she hasn't played minis games for about 7 years now.
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So all in all, we have a game that my 8 year old son gets bored by, I imagine he would rather go play his computer (which is exactly why I got him into WHFB). No real tactics, no real thinking, just a weak version of 40k in my opinion.
Of course, that's all just your opinion, as I've seen tactics used, I've seen real thinking put into a game, and I don't see much similarity at all with 40k, other than the round bases, loose squad cohesion, and a faction that looks like space knights (though space marines are actual space knights, so things come around full circle).
Like you, though, those are just my opinions.
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People should have fun when they play, of course they should, but it doesn't mean that GW should go and wreck a decent system with what I can only call a heap of rubbish and alienate (once again) a large portion of their fan base - sound familiar?
Again, AoS being rubbish is just your opnion. And it's GW's property, they can do with it as they please. I don't have much sympathy for 8th edition, I have heard as much good things and as much bad things, but never played it myself, so I personally can't formulate an opinion on the actual game. I followed the fluff as best as I could (it's decent, but filled with the usual fantasy tropes--AoS improves that), and I understand that the game had to change and change in a big way. Altering it slightly isn't actual change. No one in the world should expect everyone to be happy, of course, and no one should think that everyone should hate it either. It's brought me back into gaming in that scale, it's brought my wife back into it. Those are two very good indicators of the worth of this game.
I seriously doubt that a "large" portion of their fan base are actually alienated--or alienated to the point that GW can no longer count on their money. From what I've seen, again, my own opinion, the discontented are the loudest, thanks to the megaphone that is the internet. Those that are content, however, have no reason to complain, so are the silent majority in this. I only make noise about it because I'm getting sick of the haters blindly rage-hating with no real reason to do so other than just to hate. I'm not proclaiming AoS the greatest product of our time, nor am I a fan of GW. I am, like you, just calling it like I see it and trying to counter those obsessed with hating something they most likely have little actual idea what it is about. If someone doesn't like it, then just don't play it. No one is being forced to play it. And I'd like to point out, if "so many" are alienated and still want to play 8th edition and ignore AoS, then you should have no problem finding those people to play it, right?
I think I've belabored this enough and proven my point and clearly posted my opinion. Thank you for the discussion, binarybob. I appreciate the candor.