Let me take a stab at some of these, if you don't mind.

The rulebook states that at 10mm, bases are 40mm x 40mm. This is perfect because Warmaster uses 40mm x 20mm, so combining two stands of Warmaster-based models works perfectly.



See the banner at the top of this thread? It is on every page...but other than that, the rest of it is black and white, no illustrations...so all in all, it isnt bad (of course, what do I know...I print at work!)



It sounds like it...



YES! I was really pleasantly surprised at how succinct the rules were, as the book is 20-ish pages, but the rules themselves are only like 10. If you can comprehend the rules, you can disseminate the basics easily. I would say that yes, this would be a great first ruleset.



The intro game has you playing at 150 crowns...this buys 7-9 units or so. The limiting factor seems to be how many Command Points you get each turn, and I dont see that the game can handle many more units than 10...the more units you have, the more units you wont be able to activate each turn. There may be expansions down to the road to alloy for this, but for now, 8 units seems perfect. See my Battle Report in this forum...

Definitely, give it a shot! There may be others that make you happier ("You Mileage May Vary" is applicable for EVERY ruleset in existence), but this one has enough tactical depth and decision making that I can see it being a good one for me for some time.

_________________
http://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
http://kealios.blogspot.com/ - My blog of my sci-fi adventures

Ha! Just I was ready to post this, the system warned me that a Kealios had already replied- thanks! I'll throw this lot in as well.


As already stated, 40x40 is the ideal base size for playing MAYHEM at 10mm. That would be equivalent to 2 Warmaster bases placed together. There are no requirements for how many [or few] miniatures are on each base either. This leaves you free to model your units how you choose and allows you to make each a mini-vignette if you like.


If you printed pages 3-21 of the main rules and the quick reference sheets, then I don't think it would be too bad at all. I tried to keep the color images tight on those pages so that those printing at home wouldn't go through a couple of ink cartridges. Honestly, I think you might be fine with just the quick reference sheets after a couple of read throughs.


After the STRONGHOLD expansion has been released, extended edits have been performed, and I've made any adjustments to the system that I'm going to, I'll be releasing a hardback edition that includes the core rules and expansion in a single book. I like to make sure that things are nice and tight before print so I don't have to come out with another version and corrections in 6 months! Don't wait till then! There's plenty of gaming to get in now!


I think the game is great for a wargame novice. It will be easy to learn what everything does and have a fun game. That said, there is sooo much in terms of both strategy and tactics to delve into long term that I won't even try to get into here. As you play, you'll find that the meta is constantly shifting and you will 'discover' new interactions and possibilities that you just couldn't see a few weeks prior. Establishing the core game is one of the reason that the material has been separated into 2 volumes.


Playing at 10mm with forces constructed with a 150 crown limit, you really don't need more than a 3 foot X 3 foot playing area. There's a great report here that was played on a 3X3 table.

I would play your first few games at this level [switching out units each game] to get a feel for how the counter system works and the best way to maneuver to gain advantage. After that, you can increase the army size to suit your tastes and continue to play on a 3X3 or increase to a 4X4. Also, moving a large army [300 crown] with coordinated advances in early game turns requires both skill and player discipline- save it for later.

To expound on what Kealios said: Armies that feature 12-20 bases are large unwieldy things that lumber across the battlefield. They require a certain type of play [that represents how the force should behave and feel], and there are definitely compositions that work better for horde and/or massed troop type armies. Using a force like this means that you can't use Overdrive to great effect [like midsized and elite forces] without having your army grind to a halt. There are ways to make your enemy come to you though!


I've run a small Yahoo group until now, but it's been giving people trouble when they try to join and not allowed members [including myself!] to post at times. So, there WILL be a true forum dedicated to my games in the future. For now, I try to be good about answering questions around the net, and there are quite a few very knowledgeable fans out there who sometimes beat me to the punch.

I'm glad you like the idea of the General's Compendium. I think it'll be a great way moving forward to get updates and distill discussions we have on the web into useful information.


No worries! I look forward to seeing you unleash some MAYHEM!

Thanks for the answers guys. Very much looking forward to trying the game out, so much so I'm considering writing out on some warmaster bases some sample armies as I wait for my new armies to arrive (my own fault for ordering from baccus 2 days before salute!)

I have just downloaded the game this evening and just by glancing through the books I'm impressed by the quality. Nothing seems to be too bogged down and the nice layout is easy going, which means its comfy to read ( Ive just started the mammoth task of printing and filing all my Epic rules, and some of the GW pages are a knightmare to read through, just because the layout is so cramped!)

I will be printing the book out and the cover art is fantastic enough to want it as well! Im hoping that you can get some more of this fantastic art work in to the up coming stronghold expansion! It really shows what a mass fantasy scene should look like (its a nice change to seeing the tired art or warhammer!)

Just in case If anyone is interested, I have ordered a huge amount of baccus 6mm goblins, including around 200 wolf riders. I will also be ordering an army or two from microworld in the next few weeks, Im very excited to finally getting to build a wolf mounted greenskin horde- I have no idea if a wolf horde will be viable for this game, but I will find a way to make it work- I have loved the idea of no casualty removal, which allows for mini scenes on each base, Im surprised that warhammer has still NOT adopted this-especially with their selling point of selling toys to collectors rather then to gamers! So even if its not viable for gaming, I'll find a way to included them as heroes etc...

Anyway, with out sitting down to read the rules I don't have much constructive conversation to add yet, so Il get back here once Ive got something more interesting to add!

_________________
Epic 40,000 (3rd Ed.) & 6mm Fantasy Blog, tutorials and resources

My 6mm Sci-fi and skirmish TactComms Plog: Vermin!/Orks!/Micro-munda!

That's a great way to proxy a force and get a handle on the basic mechanics and how things interact.

Have fun at Salute!


Glad you're liking what you see. I love the cover art myself, and the download is a 300dpi image formatted for a high quality print so it should come out nice.


Make sure to post some pictures when you get started. i love seeing the mini-diorama bases that people come up with. As far as the wolf horde being viable, an army geared for speed can make up for less than optimal counters through superior numbers in combat and clever positioning. When you start getting your lists together, don't hesitate to post them here for some help.


Looking forward to it!

Just a quick one while I break from my goblins (that finally arrived from baccus!)

Couple of quick questions: For elite units it says I must name the unit, as in- 'Steve's useless little buggers', or- I must declare which is the elite unit to my enemy?

And

Why can cav not take spears? I only ask as my baccus wolf riders show up and 80% of them are equipped with spears! I had kinda expected spears to be standard weaponry of cav. OR is this my misinterpretation? Under the spears section it says infantry and chariots only, but under the reference sheet it does not say anything, where as the lance has the 'mounted only' rule on there.

And a bit of proof reading in the generals compendium:

Building an army- First paragraph, you have a buget of 150 crowns but below the 'final list' you add it up to 199 crowns, and then say 'almost 200 crowns'

'More to Come' First paragraph : 'thanks' 'attention' 'derail' (though I like that one )
'more to come' second paragraph 'additions' '

I hope you don't take the spelling corrections as nit picking or grammar Nazi-ism, I'm just thrilled by the game, and would hate to see any spelling mistakes to sneak in to a one-day publish book! I have also been printing and reading the epic apocalypse rule book this week and it is terrible even by GW standards, full of spelling and grammatical errors! They really should be ashamed- and Ive heard that the Tamurkhan book is even worse!

Thanks again, really enjoying the game, and Im not even to the stage of playing it yet!

_________________
Epic 40,000 (3rd Ed.) & 6mm Fantasy Blog, tutorials and resources

My 6mm Sci-fi and skirmish TactComms Plog: Vermin!/Orks!/Micro-munda!

Just put lances on your riders. Even if the graphic is a "spear", the game effect you want is the lance. Looks wise, spears and lances on riders can be very similar.

_________________
http://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
http://kealios.blogspot.com/ - My blog of my sci-fi adventures

Kealios has it right! The distinction between cavalry spear and lance in many historical references is slight at best in any case. Also, as a general rule, if you want to model a particular game effect, then feel free to embrace a little abstraction when applying an attribute.

Yes... to both. All elite units have to have a name [and Steve's useless little buggers is a fine one] - right? AND your opponent must know which unit is the elite one from a rules perspective. I also like to customize the unit in some way whether it be through modeling, paint scheme, or some other clever method.


I don't mind at all! I appreciate an editing eye. One of the great things about releasing the electronic edition first is working out the fine details and catching any errors. There will be hard copy after the release of the STRONGHOLD expansion that contains the entire game.


Awesome! Sometimes it's just fun to tinker with the army builder and experiment with different builds.

Just a quick Question about the stronghold expansion, if I may:

Im working on my goblin army as we speak, and part of my baccus order was a collection of bolt throwers (as a bit of throwback to warhammer, but I have always loved the idea of goblins and wolf drawn bolt throwers!)

For now they are just for flavor- something I enjoy painting and modeling so I don't go mad painting the 500 or so goblins I received but I was wondering will there be basing guidelines for war machines? I'd hate to build and paint the bagful I got only to find them useless in the upcoming rules.

I was thinking of sticking them on a 40mm round base, as its is the most ascetically pleasing to myself and that 40mm then ties in with the 2X 40x20mm square bases I am using for the cav/inf (2x warmaster bases, simple as I have hundreds sitting in my drawers!) At 40mm It allows plenty of room for tons of extra minis per 1 bolt thrower as well. I did toy with the idea of having several bolt throwers per base, and using the a 40x40mm square base, but I dont think that it looks as good.

I guess there will be no real issue with what ever base I use, but I thought it be nice to check what others thought, as they are very small and delicate and I don't think the model would withstand be de-based at a later date! But Im open to all suggestions as I have a lot of time to work with this army, and want it to look awesome! (especially now just as GW abandon specialist games, I will have a lot less to distract me from 6mm fantasy!)

_________________
Epic 40,000 (3rd Ed.) & 6mm Fantasy Blog, tutorials and resources

My 6mm Sci-fi and skirmish TactComms Plog: Vermin!/Orks!/Micro-munda!

The basing guidelines are the same as for the rest of your army. So, when gaming at 6mm the 40mmx40mm square is the recommended default. You could use the circles like you mentioned, but it would make it more difficult to determine firing arcs and facings for melee combat when squaring up. There are some basing solutions, like nested bases or placing your circle bases on flat square 'prepared bases', that would allow you to have the best of both worlds.

As far as utility is concerned, I think that you'll find them very useful! On the most basic design level, Warmachines give players that extended long range capability that is limited in the rules currently. Warmachines will actively add some tactical layers to the meta of the game as they use a unique firing/ranging mechanic, have their own soft/hard counters, and specialized uses when dealing with strongholds, keeps, and the like.


Looking at your theme and ideas, I would EITHER base your bolt throwers on circle bases and then use square terrain pieces to place them on the board, OR I would base them on a 40mmx40mm square and model the diorama to match the theme of my STRONGHOLD. You did know that you would be making a STRONGHOLD when the expansion comes out... right?

How is Mayhem's first expansion coming? I played Tactical Assault: Fantasy Cards by Tactical Assault Games and it frustrated the heck out of me that I wasnt playing Mayhem. Anyway, really hoping for some good news soon!

_________________
http://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
http://kealios.blogspot.com/ - My blog of my sci-fi adventures

Really well! The heavy lifting is done, and it's mostly down to tweaking details at this point.

Magic is pretty much ready to go! I think it's turned out extremely well, and the mechanic meshes nicely with the rest of the system and just 'feels right'. I know that magic is one of the features that players are most looking forward to, and I'm glad that I've taken the extra time to focus on really nailing it.

The rules for outlying structures like watchtowers are completely finished. The basic rules for the strongholds and keeps themselves have been done for a while, but it'll be just a bit more work to get the final scenario levels and points ironed out.

I think you'll also be happy to hear that a few of the build restrictions in the core rules will be lifted with the expansion release as well. A couple of the balance concerns that I previously had have been eradicated, and there will now be even more freedom [if you can believe that!] in army construction.


I hope that's good news!