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Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12181		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  thepanu [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
Have been thinking about this game for a while now. Minis please my eyes and I'd like some skirmish game to supplement E:A.

I'd like to hear opinions about Warmachine from members of this board.
Author:  Nicodemus [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
Actually The Best Damn Game there is. I still make epic models but cant bother to play it, PP has my soul. Both Hordes and Warmachine are great! Models are super and rules are powerfull and it has that joy of game that GW:s games used to have in its glorious years. Fluff is strong as it can.
Author:  thepanu [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
What is a starting force size for enjoyable games?

Is it worth starting with those battle group boxes?
Author:  Nicodemus [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
Actually those startboxes are great! They normally have about ~300 points of models. I enjoy those small tactical clashes of Mangled Metal (that is: only hero and his/hers warjacks) at 350 points. With every faction they make great starting point and good force just by themselves.

Even now when I have forces of 500 points for Cryx, Legion and Trolls I still want to play enjoyable 350 Mangled Metal games.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
I've only sat in on one game, and found it to be more of a 'listhammer' game than Epic.

Make of that what you will.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
Warmachine is a fun game, with some surprising depth; and lots of options, with the incredibly non-GW fact that models released in earlier books are still competetive with newer releases!  *laugh*

First off, if you want to maintain your enjoyment: PLAY SCENARIOS!  Privateer Press has *tonnes* of scenarios available on their website, nominally used for League play but fine for just "fun" games: (Current League)

The started boxes are great value and I know people who, for years, only played with those "basic" armies and had a lot of fun.  

Currently, the common game sizes are 500 and 750 points, and allow for a lot of variety in army composition.  

All of things are high-powered and there can be a lot of unusual combos and strange synergies, though some people get stuck in ruts using, in their minds, "unbeatable" setups... yet, they still get beaten.

My only real complaint with the game is that it is a "I go, you go" game, where you preform all your army's actions and then your opponent does the same.  I much prefer an "alternating activation" system like Epic's.

All that said, I still prefer Epic for its tactical depth and "sweeping" feel, but Warmachine is a great "skirmish" game, I've found it a lot more fun than GW's 28mm offerings of late.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
I really need to avoid this thread, as Warmachine is one of those games that I know I could easily get into if I run out of excuses not to. My two main barriers to the game are:

- Confusing to start up. There seem to be about four ways to start, two different games (or three? Hordes is Fantasy based, right?) with slightly different rules and opions in each, and PP dont seem to want to make it easy for people to just pick up. I just want one book, with ALL of the rules and updates in it, and then I can buy the minis seperately (and force lists).

- Kill the Warcaster. From what I have seen, the game revolves around knocking out the enemy commander, and when he(/she) is gone, the game is over. This seems a little limited to me.

But, the Cryx minis are soooo nice, and I have heard that the game rewards planning and tactics!

EDIT: Said 'Warjack', meant 'Warcaster'.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
Sorry to be a tempter... *laugh*


(CyberShadow @ Mar. 31 2008,12:52)
QUOTE
- Confusing to start up. There seem to be about four ways to start, two different games (or three? Hordes is Fantasy based, right?) with slightly different rules and opions in each, and PP dont seem to want to make it easy for people to just pick up. I just want one book, with ALL of the rules and updates in it, and then I can buy the minis seperately (and force lists).


Four ways to start?  Well, the *easiest* way to start is to buy a "starter box" that you think looks cool and go from there.  The box has a 'basic rules' sheet, the stat cards for the models inside it and you can happily play with just that for a long time.

Both games are "fantasy", with Warmachine being "steampunk" and Hordes being "monsterous" in focus; all the rules for actually playing are the same for both "genres" and they are cross compatible.  The "Warmachine: Prime Remix" and the "Hordes: Primal" are your core rulebooks and they're all you need to get all the rules to play.

The essential difference between Warmachine and Hordes is this: Warmachine is about "resource management", you get a certain amount of "Focus" each turn and must decide how to allocate it to get things done during your turn.  Hordes is about "risk management", your minions' actions generate "Fury", which can be used to fuel spells and abilities, but the more you do the more you generate and that can lead to things frenzying out of control.

- Kill the Warjack. From what I have seen, the game revolves around knocking out the enemy commander, and when he(/she) is gone, the game is over. This seems a little limited to me.
I think you mean "Warcaster", but yes, generally killing the enemy leader(s) ends the game, as they're the magical conduit a lot of models draw their power from.

This is why I *HIGHLY* recommend playing scenarios: other than actually "Assassin"-type scenarios, killing the enemy Warcaster/Warlock is only a secondary/minor victory; in League play this is significant as it awards fewer points, but in "fun" play it also lessens your bragging rights!  *laugh*

And it's not usually that easy to kill a high-power wizard that commands rocks that walk or living metal monsters... *laugh*
Author:  Nicodemus [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?

(CyberShadow @ Mar. 31 2008,12:52)
QUOTE
- Confusing to start up. There seem to be about four ways to start, two different games (or three? Hordes is Fantasy based, right?) with slightly different rules and opions in each, and PP dont seem to want to make it easy for people to just pick up. I just want one book, with ALL of the rules and updates in it, and then I can buy the minis seperately (and force lists).]

Ok, you like Cryx so there is only one way to start: Get Cryx startbox and start playing like you got a pair, then buy Prime:Remix (Standard rulebook). (If you would have liked some Hordes army, then get theirs starbox and Hordes rulebook (Hordes:Primal))

It can be little confusing that in warmachine you have The Rule book and three (four?) other books with every one giving more minis and rules, but honestly all you need is Prime and models you like (they come with stat card which have everything you need to field them (apart from cavalry, but who needs cavalry?)).?

I have been playing it for year, and just last weekend got my hands on Escalation (which is second book to buy), it has not hampered my joy of gaming any way. Ok, tournaments could bring suprise or two if you dont own every book, but tournaments are maybe not the best place to start anyhow.
Author:  Lion in the Stars [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
Warmachine is a fun game, kinda reminiscent of hero-hammer to some extent, as the warcasters (or warlocks, if you play Hordes) are very powerful (for a D&D comparison, most of the named warcasters are 20th level characters going by the lists in the Iron Kingdoms rpg setting).  Don't get me wrong, it's possible to mob a caster with a unit of troops and kill them, but don't count on having too many troops left.

Warmachine and Hordes are set in the same universe, and take place at the same time.  The rulesets are so compatible that it's pretty typical to see Warmachine v. Hordes matchups all the time at the FLGS.  As was mentioned, Warmachine is about resource management (and warmachine armies work better in attrition-type strategies), while Hordes is about risk management.  Having a 4-ton Dire Troll go psycho on you can really derail your plans, unless he goes psycho in the middle of the *Opponents* army, which may still derail your plans for him, but can also win the game for you.

There are 9.5 different factions in the game(s) right now:  Cygnar, the boys in blue;  Khador, the thugs in red; Cryx, the undead legions of a very unfriendly dragon; the Protectorate of Menoth, the religious zealots in white; Circle Orboros, the tree-hugging wrath of nature in green; Trolls, the scottish-inspired (and closest thing to "good guys" in the entire storyarc); Skorne, the invaders from across the blasted wastelands in Dark Red; and the Legion of Everblight, another force of slaves of a Dragon.  There's also Mercenaries/Minions for both sides of the discussion which are playable in a couple different ways, including as PIRATES!.

Cygnar has all the best toys.  Khador is for people that like heavy metal.  Cryx moves fast and hits pretty hard, but can't take a hit.  Menoth is all about multi-unit synergy, and not caring if you lose a bunch of Zealots... and fire.  Lots and lots of burning goodness for all your pyromaniac needs.  Circle is all about controlling the battlefield, hit&run ambush tactics, etc.  Trolls are a cross between Khador and menoth.  They are very tough, but have incredible synergies that you really NEED to take advantage of to win.  Skorne have great beasts and great troops that will deliver a devastating charge, but don't deal with terrain well at all.  And then there's the Lesion of Evercheese (sorry, cant stand the faction's fluff, rules, and ugly infantry models.  Too much stuff that flatout ignores everything that you use to try to stay alive long enough to do damage to their beasts.) They're often referred to as the easy button in the game.  Very powerful units that don't need a lot of synergy to work well, all for a lower cost than comparable units in other lists.

Despite my earlier comparison to herohammer, there's a lot of stuff that really makes you think, as many models and units apply benefits to other units, so which model you activate first (order of operations) is critical to actually winning a game.

The biggest thing to remember is that there's NO SUCH THING as an "unbeatable combo".  Every faction has some very nasty multi-unit combos... that don't work at all if a unit is out of place, or is activated in the wrong order!

also, the game is built around the Rules as Written.  if a card says "model or unit" then it can affect both individual models (solos and Jacks/Beasts) and troop units, and affects the entire unit.  If it only says "model", they mean ONE MODEL.

The only book you need is Prime Remix for warmachine, and Primal for hordes, although I don't remember if you need Superiority or Evolution for the Cavalry rules.  Everything else is written on the card.  PP has a good quick-reference guide that you can download to remind yourself during play.
Author:  vanvlak [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
Advice to self:
Run away, run away.
I've long been tempted by those warjacks ...
Author:  Markconz [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
Reasonably popular around here, but all the stat cards everywhere looks messy and unappealing to me.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?

(Markconz @ Mar. 31 2008,22:17)
QUOTE
Reasonably popular around here, but all the stat cards everywhere looks messy and unappealing to me.

Around here it's popular to keep them in a small business card holder book or for storing sports cards... keeps 'em all in one place!  *laugh*

Since most games are played on a 4'x4' battlefield, I use the, usual, empty 2'x4' area to keep my cards spread out in "toploaders"
Author:  pixelgeek [ Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?
It is a fun game and a fun system but the continuing series of expansions makes the game rather difficult to play if you are not a regular player.

I recently traded away all of my Hordes and Warmachine figures because I was getting tired of losing games not because of bad luck, tactics or strategy but because I forgot that someone's troops ignored terrain or couldn't be targeted with ranged attacks.

The depth of the game really rewards repeated play and frequent play but if you are a casual gamer then I'd avoid the game and look at something else.
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Opinions on Warmachine from epic players?

(pixelgeek @ Apr. 01 2008,00:10)
QUOTE
The depth of the game really rewards repeated play and frequent play but if you are a casual gamer then I'd avoid the game and look at something else.

Or only play "box battles"/350 point games... which are still rocking fun!

Sorry to see you leave an aspect of the hobby, pg!
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